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NASA-UAP-D019: Gemini 5 Technical Debriefing, Part I, 1965

Released: June 12, 2026

This document is a preliminary transcript (Part I) derived from voice recordings of the Gemini 5 flight crew technical debriefing. NASA conducted this d…

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--- PAGE 1 ---
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                                                                   19


        Y authtrity of E. c 1 1 G
        hanged by C4?1 • 'o <<=­
                             /

                       GEMINI V

           TECHNICAL DEBRIEFING (U)

                        Part 1




                        NOTICE: This document may be exempt from
                        public disclosure under the Freedom of lnfor•
                        mation Act (5 U.S.C. 552). Requests for its re­
                        lease to persons outside the U.S. Government
                        should be handled under the provisions of
                        NASA Policy Directive 1382.2.




    THIS MAT E RIAL CONTAINS INF'ORM.ATION AFl"IECTING
    THE NATIONAL OEFENSE OF THE            UN I TEO STATES
    WITHIN THE MEANING OF' TH£ £8P'IONAGIE LAW 5 ,.
    TITLE 11. U . S.C, SE CTION 793 ANO 794 . T HE TRANS­
    M I SSION OR REVELAT I O N Of' WH IC H IN AN Y MANNER
    TO AN UNA UTH ORIZED PERSON IS PR OHIB ITE D av L AW.



    GROUP 4
    OOWNCiftAOEO AT ) V EA R I NTFRVALS,
    OECL ASSI F'IEO AFTER 12 VE ARS




t

    " 6 () t JF18Er4TI;\ b

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PRELIMINARY

  GT- 5 FLIGHT CREW DEBRIEFING TRANSCRIPT
                    PART I




                  Prepared By

        Spacecraft Operations Branch

        Flight Crew Support Division

               September 1 , 1965




This material contains informati on affecting the
national defense of the United States within the
meaning of the Espionage Laws , Ti tle 18. U. S. C.
Section 793 and 794, the transmission or revela­
tion of which in any manner to an unauthorized
person is prohibited by law.
Gr oup 4 :   Downgrade at 3 year intervals
             Declassified after 12 years

--- PAGE 3 ---
PREFACE


     This preliminary transcript was made from voice tape recordings

of the GT-5 flight crew debriefing conducted August 30, 1965 thru

September 1, 1965 at the Crew Quarters, Cape Kennedy , Florida.

     Although all the material contained in this transcript has been

edited, the urgent need for the preliminary transcript by mission

analysis personnel precluded a thorough editorial review prior to its

publication.   Errors in this transcript will be corrected as soon as

possible and an official transcript will be published at a later date .

     This document contains a transcript of the first part of the

debriefing, during which the crew described the mission generally

from an operational viewpoint .   A preliminary transcript of the re­

mainder of the debriefing will be published by September 3, 1965.       It

will cover systems operations , operational checks, visual sightings,

experiments , pre-mission planning, mission control , and training.




                     a   i eJ~FIDff:!TIAL

--- PAGE 4 ---
9'0Ni;10 ENTll(t

 ~


                                        TABLE OF CONTENTS

         Paragraph                                                     Page Number

         1.0    COUNTDOWN
                1.1 Crew Insertion.     . .. .. . .. .. .. .. ..                  ,1
                1.2 Communications .    . .                                   . .1
                1. 3 Crew Participation and Countdown .                           .1
                1.4 Comfort ......... .                                           .1
                1.5 Environmental Control System                                  .2
                1.6 Sounds  ..                                       ....          2
                1.7 Vibrations ...........                                        2
                1.8 Visual  ...........                              ....         3
                1. 9 Crew Station Controls and Displays                           4
         2. 0   POWER.ED FLIGHT
                2.1 Lift- Off Cues  .                 ....                        6
                2. 2 Roll Pr ogram                                                7
                2.3 Pitch Program   .                                             8
                2 . 4 Aerodyna.mci.cs.                               ....         8
                2 . 5 Environmental Control System .       .                      9
                            ......
                2 . 6 Maximum q                                    ....            9
                            .. . .
                2 . 7 Windshear                                                    9
                              .....
                2. 8 DCS Update .                                  ....            9
                2. 9 Engine 1 Operati on.                                          9
                          . .. .
                2. 10 POGO.                                                       10
                                 .
                2 . 11 Engine 2 Status                                      ..    12
                2 . 12 Acceleration g ' s                ....                .
                                                                                  12
                          .... .
                2 ,13 BEXJO                                                       12
                             ...
                2 . 14 Staging
                2 . 15 Engine 2 Ignition
                                                         ....                     13
                                                                                  13
                               ..
                2. 16 RGS Initia t~                                               ~4

                            ..
                2,18 GO/ NO GO
                                   .
                2. 17 Fairing Jettison                                            15
                                                                                  20
                2, 19 Systems Sta tus                                             21
                2 . 20 SECO                                                   .   21
                2. 21 Steeri11g ,                                             .   22
I'


......   3.0    INSERTION
                3. 1 Post- SEXJO .......          .....                     . . 23
                                     . . .. . . .
                3. 2 SEXJO + 20 Seconds                                           26
                                                                                  30
                3.3 Inser tion Activities
         4.0    ORBITAL FLIGHT                                                    38

                                         Wf.lE>ENTl~E

--- PAGE 5 ---
Page Number
5.0    RETROFIRE
       5. 1 !R- 36 Events . .                      .168
       5. 2  ~R-  256 Events .                     . 172
       5.3   ~ - 1 Events . . . .                  . 173
       5 ,4 1R- O Events . . . .                 . . 174
       5.5   Retropack Jettison .                  . 182
       5 . 6 Communications .                      . 183
6 .0   REENTRY
       6.1    400 K     . . . . . . .              . 194
       6 . 2 Acceleration profile .                . 196
       6.3    Spacecr aft control .                .197
       6.4    100 000 Feet .      .                . 197
       6.5    50 000 Feet . . . .                  . 198
       6.6    35 000 checklist items .             . 202
       6 . 7 Commtmi cati ons .   . .              . 202
       6. 8   10 . 6K barostat .  . . .            . 202
       6 , 9 Main chute deployment                 . 203
       6 . 10 Single point release .               . 204
       6 . 11 Blood pressure measurements       . . 204
       6 . 12 Postmain checklist items .           . 205
7. 0   LANDING AND RECOVERY
       7. 1   Impact. . .    .                    .206
       7,2    Checklists .   .                  . . 210
       7.3    Communications .                     . 211
       7.4    Systems Configuration .              . 211
       7 , 5 Spacecraft Status .     .             . 212
       7 . 6 Post- Landing Activities              . 213
       7, 7 Comfort .      . . . . ..              . 214
       7. 8   Recovery Force Personnel .           . 214
       7 . 9 Egress .    .                         . 214
       7 . 10 Survival Gear                        . 215
       7. 11 Crew Pickup                           . 215

--- PAGE 6 ---
1



                                 1 .0 COUNTDOWN

1.1 Crew Insertion

       Cooper          The crew insertion , I thought, went very well .

       Conrad          Yes , we had the suiting thing down on my cuffs and

                       everything so that we got right ou t t here and, boy,

                       th& Gunter was ready for us and i n we went .

       Cooper          They were all set .    There were no delays and every­

                       thing went exceedingly well on t he gantry.

1 . 2 Communications

       Cooper          Communications , I thought were good and no probl em at

                       all on communications, and everything went real well.

       Conrad          Yes , Stoney handled that whole thing real well .

       Cooper          All right, volume was still down on the little comm

                       sets in the transfer van there .       That ' s Stoney' s

                       little improvement .

1 . 3 Crew Participation
      in Countdown

       Cooper          Crew participation in the countdown was good .         I

                       didn ' t see anything at all wrong.

       Conrad          Yes , we weren ' t rushed .   We felt t hat we had enough
                       time to get the switches in the right position and

                       just ever ything went real good.

1.4 Comfort

       Cooper          Comfort was real fine .       We went on to two suit fans

--- PAGE 7 ---
2




                  right away.    I thought we felt plenty cool the

                  whole time.



        Cooper   ECS was good.     Never any problem with it .

1.6 Sounds

        Cooper   Sounds , I thought the only sounds tha·; we had that

                 were abnormal we'd been warned about.        When the

                 prevalves opened, they were fairly loud and when

                 the engines gimballed they were quite loud , and

                 both of those we were aware of the fact that they

                 would cause a lot of noise and vibrat:.on.
       Conrad    There is something that really dings t he booster

                 too when they start .. . .   I don ' t--whet her they
                 drop a platform away.

       Cooper    It ' s before they start moving the gant ry.
       Conrad    Just before they start lowering that erector.           Boy,

                 something really, like it really bangs tha t booster ,

                 I thought.     I still don't know what it is , but , of

                 course, we ' d been up there with the erector down

                 twice before that so we were sort of e~tting used

                 to those kind of sounds.
1. 7 Vibration

       Cooper    Okay , vibrations we already covered tr.at .    Sounds ,
                 vibrations.

--- PAGE 8 ---
3



     1.8 Visual
,.
            Cooper         Visual .    Nothing....

            Conrad         Oh , yes , wait a minute, I started getting this win­

                           dow fogging .

            Cooper         Well, let ' s cover that under the right area .

            Conrad         Well, it was actually in the countdown when the

                           erector went down before liftoff .

            Cooper         Well , okay , allright .

            Conrad         I mean we still had it later .

            Cooper         Well, you want to cover that now then in systems .

            Conrad         Well, is that what this means , is visual, or does

                           that just mean something else?

            FCSD REP       Yes, that ' s before liftoff.            Powered flight is next .

            Conrad         Yes , well t lri,s-tra-,:5pened 6e:f'1

            Cooper     /   Allright , even before liftoff ,                     hat this

                           really is completely unforgiveable.              Each window

                           was filthy.       Just fogged completely over, and it was

                           on the inside of the outer pane of glass .              It was
                                                                                           I
                           within the sealed unit of glass , and it was so

                           foggy when they lowered the erector that it

                                         it was frozen over solid,          I

                                                 d neither could

            Conrad         Well, it had fogged over before they lowered the


                               (j()tqflDENTIA[ ,.

--- PAGE 9 ---
4



                     erector and then the guys heated it w:.th hot air to

                     make it go away and that just made th:.ngs wor se when

                     they lowered the erector .

       Cooper        It didn't make it go away all the way.

       Conrad        That I s right it made'"it- ~ actually.

       Cooper   /    L         my side in my window ~etweer. the inside

                     pane and the two outside panes of\\8-~s , I had a

                     sma ll bee , and I had a fly, and I had\several

                     flecks of things that I had written u~ before and

                     never got corrected, and they were the whole flight,

                     and I ' m sure they will show up on all the films

                     and everything.         Now between the outer sealed panes

                     of glass there were numerous little specks and

                     of stuff and throughout the flight as . .. well , we ' ll

                     cover that later, but that was even 7rore the flight

                     started .   The windows were not pla/n a nd were not in
                     good shape to go forthe--f~.

1 . 9 Crew Station Contr ols
      and Displa_ys

       Conrad        I think the Gemini cockpit is a pretty good cockpit .

       Cooper        I think in general that crew stations eontrols and

                     displays were pretty adequate .

       Conrad        I 've got a couple comments on switches and things,

                     but these are . . . .

                                 ~FIDENTIAL -

--- PAGE 10 ---
5



     FCSD REP   Okay , how about the time you spent in there on

                prelaunch .   Do you think that this is about right?

     Cooper     Yes , yes , I think that this is just about right .

                I think that if you cut it down too much more

                than that you are going to be ....you could cut it

                down some more , there's no doubt . .. .

     Conrad     It ' s that cabin purge cycles when you ' re not doing

                anything really , and that ' s excellent time .

     Cooper     ... that you can cut it down, but that ' s the thing

                that takes the time for both the ground crews ...

                and that ' s lost time.     I don ' t know . ...

     Conrad     I don ' t think you want to rush the crew and now

                our count that second day went by the clock, boy.

                We got in there at the right time .         We counted down

                and lifted off on, and I didn ' t feel that I was

                rushed , and I didn ' t feel that I sat in there for

                an excessive amount of time .

     Cooper     No , I didn ' t either.   I thought that it went just

                about right , time wise .

,.   Conrad     Long as there ' s no holds in the count everything' s

                great .

--- PAGE 11 ---
6                                    FtE>ENTI L
                               2.0   POWERED FLIGHT

2.1   Lif t Off Cues

         Cooper        Okay , lift- off cues , CAP COM .     CAP CO~ didn ' t come

                       into the act until later .       Stoney counted us down

                       thru ignition and lift-off and then CAP COM picked

                       us up at l ift- off .    Motion is an excellent clue .

                       There ' s doubt in your mind when you ljft- off .          You

                       know, the second you lift- off that yot .' ve lifted .

                       Vibration was very low.

         Conrad        It had dropped out almost completely a.t lift- off,

                       felt that shaking was very l i ght.

         Cooper        There was very little vibrati on at all .        Okay,

                       vibration , very l ow.      Noise I thought, was quite

                       low .

         Conrad        I was particularl y aware of the noises of goi ng

                       through the max Q regionar y thing .       Oh , t his is

                       lift-off again .     I thought the noises were very

                       well at l iftoff .      You know the engines were

                       running from the outside before , you know, and man

                       they really make a racket , but from where you are

                       it's pretty quite .      You know there running.     You

                       can here them , there's no doubt about that , but .. .
         Cooper        Okay , on visual I don ' t . . . .   We had a very cl ear

                       day .   There weren't even any clouds in sight on

                          ~            IDENTI~

--- PAGE 12 ---
C.(&)Hft0ENTI:,\~~
                      au,                             !to
                                                                           7

                     our sight as we were lifting off, and I couldn't

                     tell any visual cues to lift- off, could you?

        Conrad       You had the feeling that you were moving visually.

                     After you get your ro ll program you see it visually

                     and you can see the pitch program starting visually,

                     but just at first    l ift-off you don't really have

                     any visual cues .   Cockpit displays are just l ike

                     advertised .   The two stage - one lights go out, and

                     . .. just l ike the simulator.

2 . 2 Roll Program

        Conrad       Yes , I watched roll program on the gyro, I was

                     watching for it to come i n on time and in glancing

                     up when the roll program started I was still

                     looking at nothing but blue sky, but I was aware
                     visually as you say that the booster was rolling.

                     Yes , you can have a airplane when you are looking

                     at nothing but blue sky and start a motion and you
                     may not know exactly what the motion is, but you

                     know t hat you are moving.

        Cooper       Now on this cockpit display, something that I got two
                     different answers to from different people on how the

                     gyro and the actual case was going to be set and it

                     suddenly dawned on me that they actually set the gyro
                     so that you are launching down the 90 degrees.        You're

--- PAGE 13 ---
8

                      progressi ng down to 90 degrees line , e. la the

                      simulator, although the booster sets on 85 degrees

                      and when you turn to 72 degrees launch azimuth
                      you are rolling clockwise so far as tr.e crew is

                      concerned .

         Conrad       You roll to zero .

         Cooper       But you are rolling to is real ly to O on the gyro

                      as precessed around so that you are net really

                      setting on the actual launch azimuth, you are

                      actually setting so that when you stai§'e on over i n

                      yaw then pitch over then in your yaw your on the in­

                      plane line.

         FCSD REP     You ' re coming down the zero line .   Y01.:. 1 re yawing

                      down the zero l i ne .

         Cooper       That 's right , and I kept getting diffe.rent answers

                      on this and this is in fact the case.       Roll program

                      was exactly right on time and ended e>:actly on time.

2 . 3 Pitch Program

         Cooper       Pitch program started exactly on time.

2. 4   Aerodynamic

          Cooper      Aerodynamic was nothing new or differE:nt about it .

                      It was just standard.    We build up to the noises at

                      max Q; the noise built up to gradual level and the

                      vibration and quantity built up to ma>:~ and then

                      dropped off very rapidly J.1'd:i!Jitely thereafter.
                                    FlDENTIAL

--- PAGE 14 ---
CONFICtleNTIA~ •                                       9

2. 5   ECS

             Conrad     Right on the button.
         Cooper         ECS was right on the money , no problem at all .

                        Max Q we ' ve already stated .

         Conr ad        The cabin s ealed a little bit high like they said

                        it would .    I forget the number.   It was about 5.8.

         Cooper         About 5.8 or 9 and just gradually dwindled back down .

         Conrad         And just after we got in there by the time I looked

                        at it again after insertion everything it bled down

                        on our gage to 4.9, our gage read a little low .      I
                        think the actual reading , you will pr obably find

                        the cabin actually was 5.1 1 but the whole rest of

                        t he flight the gage never budged off the 4.9.

         Cooper         The gage stayed right there like it was glued .

2 . 7 Wind Shear

         Cooper         The wind shear , we had none and , certainly nothing

                        that we could     tell , but as I understand we ' ve been

                        told that for that day anyway we had almost negible

                        wind shear.

2 . 8 DCS Updates

             Cooper     DCS updates were right on time .

             FCSD REP   You had two updates?
             Conrad     1 plus   45 , 2 plus 25 .

2 , 9 Engine 1 Operat i on

             Cooper     The engine 1 operation couldn ' t have been better,
                        ----~~K)ENTIAL

--- PAGE 15 ---
10
                                                                     ..
                     It was beautiful.           Just now in between engine 1

                     operation and engine 2 here we have t wo items we

                     will insert in here .

2, 10 POGO

       Cooper        One was POGO..        At 2 mi nutes and 5 seconds we started

                     picking up POGO and I got a fairly gcod amount of

                     POGO on through , stopping just at abcut 5 to 7

                     seconds before staging.              POGO dropped. cl ean out

                     exactly the same time there that we programmed POGO

                     on the early days.

        Conrad       Yes, that one surprised me .               We ' d he1:.rd and read

                     tbat both John 8{!.d Gus ' s and Jim and Ed ' s f l i ght

                     that they were hardly even aware of IDGO and boy

                     when it came in on us it was loud anc. clear and ,




                 (
                     well Gordon , neither one of us could talk hardly;

                     we were really vibrating with it and I was hard

                     pressed to read the displays.
                                                                           -------
                                                                   By golly , if I had
                     to re__:-t
                           ad -;-:h;--e- num;-er
                                         - --:b- _ on
                                                   __ _ , e a:·-i~-s p~r-ays
                                                                         ___ I-
                                                                             .,,. think I woul d

                     have been hard pressed to do it, because we really

                     had it pretty good.

        Cooper       Yes , the rate ... the amplitude of them were such

                     . . . 11 cps frequency and the ampl itude of them was

                     such that you were on -- you were on the marginal

--- PAGE 16 ---
11



           edge of reading of any large gage and any fine

           reading that you had to read, you would never be

           able to read any numbers.          It was exactly like

           the POGO we did all along on the program up at

           Ames and as the exact amplitude , I don ' t lmow, but
           i t was , . . . . .   I think we don ' t want that ~     POGO.

           It was no       par icu ar y upsetting to me , because I

           really was fai rly familiar with POGO having been

           through a ll that POGO program, but this thing kind

           of t i ckled me that we got it to see that we had

           still hadn ' t solved it , but I don ' t think . . .

           its something you don ' t want because if you had ot~er

           things going wrong during that period of t i me it

           would make it vecy difficult to say what you had

           wrong or what

Conrad     It didn ' t upset me , but it surprised me , you lmow,

           because I just wasn't expecting POGO.

RCSD REP   Wbat g- level would you estimate it to be?

Cooper     Well , we were sneaking right up there .

FCSD REP   I mean the POGO .

Cooper     Oh, it was right at about 5 g ' s .             ·\ 1•
FCSD REP   Well , I mean plus or minus amplitude .

Cooper     Well I , my estimate on it was that it was something

--- PAGE 17 ---
12



                       on the order of maybe three quarters of a g .           Well, I

                       don I t !mow whether it was that high c,r not .
          Conrad       I thought it was at least a half , if not better .

                       Apparently it wasn't that high .        I ws.s really

                       surprised.   Like I say, we were really getting the



          Cooper
                       ramrod out of it.

                                                            --
                            s beyond what we selected as we th~ht

                       should be the cutoff.     It was more tr.an wh~ we
                                                                          l
                       had selected at Ames as being max acc 7.

                            in this.I passed up ver      b •        there one of

                       the first things that happened immediately about

                       the time that we got the pitch program was the

                       IGS Stage 2 fuel needle failed in thE full -max

                       deflection position.     And it came back on and was

                       reading after staging briefly and thEn failed again

                       during staging.     It was intermittent .
2 . 11 Engine 2 Status

          Cooper       Engine 2 status stayed ... was perfect .        There was
                       not anything wrong at al l.
2 .12   Acceleration G' s

          Cooper       Acceleration g ' s were right on the piofile , were

                      certainly very pleasant.       Nothing wrong at all with them.
2 . 13 BECO

--- PAGE 18 ---
13


                Cooper      BECO was right on the money .
.
     2 . 14   Staging

                Conrad      Boy, that staging was smooth too .
                Cooper      They told us that BECO was going to occur early , but
                            it was

                Conrad      We did loft a little bit apparently like they said
                            we woul d because, right a fter staging ....

     2. 15    Engine 2 I gnition

                Conrad      Well , Engine 2 ignition, I wasn't even hardly aware of
                            that other than we jus t started to get a little , yc,11

                            know, we just sort of went off the peg at 6 g's and

                            Gordo said s t aging OK and Engine 2 is good and I
                            wasn ' t even aware that Engine 2 had lit .    You

                            can ' t hear it, to speak of, but you can feel the

                            acceleration slowly building up .
                FCSD REP    Did you see anything visually?
                Conrad      No , I didn't see anything.     I heard the other guys

                            talking about s ee the flash at the brig.      Never
                            saw a thing and I wasn't aware of any flash out

                            there either .
I\


               Cooper       J didn ' t   see anything at all at BEDO.   The best clue

                            that I have on my side , is that I see the Fuel

                            and Oxidizer needles start coming down as the engine

--- PAGE 19 ---
14                                                         •


                      starts burning.     And then they coming c.own fairly

                      rapidly at first, I mean you get a very definite

                      motion on them right at first there and. they kind of settled

                      out.   Engine 2 ignition we've already covered.

2.16   RGS Initiate

        Cooper        RGS initiate right on the money.

        Conrad        I was going to mention that we had l of t ed and

                      that we were expected to pitch down a.nd we did when

                      it picked up RGS.

        Cooper        It smoothed in very smooth, and the fading was

                      just right.

        Conrad        The IGS needle really deflected and I ~as , you know,

                      I don't think it pitched, it didn't peg- out , but it

                      did make a large dip and then when the booster

                      came down just pitched down very smoottly down to

                      about 75 or 80 degrees, I guess it pitched down

                      almost 10 degrees.

        FCSD REP      What rate did it pitch over?

        Conrad        Very slow, but steady, at just

        Cooper        It took about 20 seconds I guess to fade it in there .
        Conrad        The needle came in and made a big deflection and

                      right after that the booster started pitching and

                      the needle started back and boy the needl e was



                                                          •

--- PAGE 20 ---
CQ~ElDEhJIJA                                          15


                    back and thing was right on the money at about 80

                    degrees.      It was a very smooth transition and then
                    do you remember they were telling, us to look

                    for this one cps oscillation? Well, I didn't have

                    rate needl e s like Gordo did, but I wasn't aware of
                     any oscil lations at any time.    That booster was in

                    pitch and yaw as far as that went

        Cooper      Those rate needles were like they were glued .

                    There was never through boost or second stage was

                     there ever any rate except that one tiny little
                    rate , one teensy little rate just at when we were

                    in POGO we got one tiny little longitudinal rate,
                                                                            '
                     just one tiny little fleck on a rate, and was the

                     only one .   Otherwise it was just smooth as silk,

                     the whole time, rate wi se .

2.17   Fairing Jettison

        Cooper      Fairing jettison.     We jettisoned fairings at 3:25

                    and man do they ever go .

        Conrad       I counted Gordo down to them.    Okay, yes, that ' s

                    a good point .

        Cooper      Beside the scanner fairing and the nose fairing go
                    and when the nose fairing went it went with all

                    kinds of debris .    There were pieces flying all

--- PAGE 21 ---
16


              over.

     Conrad   Yes , and I don't think it went right .        I don't

              believe it went right , because the Rand R can

              was ripped up in the front , and I can show you on

              my side the nose went like that and there was some

              tape or fiber glass that goes around t he . . ..

              It was fiberglass cloth and it was a ll broken loose

              in jagged flaps sticking up t hat, you lmow, had

              broken loose from a long in here when i.hat cover

              went I had decided impression that the cover went

              off askew, that it didn 't jettison t he: way i t should
              have.   And this could be a good point of putting

              it back to a fter insertion.

     Cooper   Well, it ' s supposed to go off askew.

     Conrad   Yes , well, it just di dn ' t go off clean .     That 's why

              this was ripped up, see .

     Cooper   Well , it something somebody might look into , but
              you don ' t want to recommend that they put back to

              after insertion , because your taking a weight

              penalty to carry that all the way up.

     Conrad   Yes, I realize that , but . . . .

     Cooper   It was designed to go off ... .

     Conrad   That was the reason in the first place that they


                      WIDE

--- PAGE 22 ---
17



         moved it up there anyhow, because they weren't ....

Cooper   No , the reason they moved it up there was because

         they didn ' t have strong enough propulsion on those

         squibs and spring combinations or whatever they use .

         We never did get a reading on that, but whatever

         the total propulsive expulsion system wasn't kick­

         ing, the scanner fairing wide enough but what they

         would come back into the booster.     But didn't you

         have the distinct impression that the nose fairing

         broke into j illions of pieces when it blast .

Conrad   I certainly, I certainly , yes .   That ' s why wh~n

         I say askew , I mean something didn't look right.

         I can't put my finger on it, but --

Cooper   It came off in many pieces anyway.     There were many,

         many pieces and the whole area was just filled with

         debris .

Conrad   Yes, and then , I 'm not sure that that's when we got

         all that gl op on our windshiel d, the spots ...

Cooper   Well, I noted exactly at that time immediately

         after the fairing went, I noted about 5 or 6 , I

         saw them hit , 5 or 6 gray splots, just small ones ,

         very small little gray- type splots and I was

         distinctly looking for that and watching for it and

--- PAGE 23 ---
18


                they were not there before they were t'nere and I
                                                                             ;
                saw them when they hit.      They h it duri:'.l.g all this

                debris flying around period .

     Conr ad    I think that you can s ti11 f i nd them o:'.l. the

                windshields .     They didn ' t burn off during reentry.

     Cooper     But they ' re not bad and there are just a few little

                scattered ones and I think it might be interesting

                t o compare how many you get there vers us and how

                many you get when you jettison them in orbit .         It
                may wel l be that jettisoni ng in orbit would be pre­

                ferab l e , but I didn ' t f i nd anything objectionable

                t o jettisoning where they went , they wenm fine.

                It did add a lot of debris and I agree with Pete

                there was a big torn something or other out there

                which may just be a fiberglass thing that is kind

                of . .. ,.

     Conrad     Yes , I want to get down and look at the R and R and

                and I can tell you what it was , describe it a lot

                better.      We ' ll probably have some pictures of it

                too in the camera somewhere.       I know it ' ll show

                up in some film .

     FCSD REP   How l ong was this visible?      You say there was a big

                bunch of stuff out there .


                       ONFIDENTIAL

--- PAGE 24 ---
19


Cooper   There ' s a whole fly .   Oh, you mean the debris .   It

         was gone .

Conrad   It was gone like that, but it just looked like the

         whole darn thing exploded.

Cooper   It looked like it just flew into a jillion pieces.

         It was all around you for maybe a period of a

         second or two .

Conrad   I didn't think it was that much , i t was just gone .

Cooper   But it was a defininite period of time when you

         were aware of all this debris all over and then

         clear .   Okay, enough for fairing jettison.

--- PAGE 25 ---
20




2 . l8 GO/NO GO
        Cooper     GO/NO GO:    We never got a GO/NO GO beeause we lost

                   our number 1 radio in about 4 minutes s ometime just

                   prior . . . let see we got a . 8 . . . .   Wti got a V

                   over VR of . 8 .   We got a GO/NO GO of , ..
        FCSD REP   You did get a , 8?

        Cooper     We got a .8 .

        Conrad     Yes , that comes much later - that com(!S after the
                   GO/NO GO.

        Cooper     Yes, that ' s right , okay, well I don ' t remember

                   ever getting a ... yea , we did, we go·~ MCC GO.

                   Right we got a GO/NO GO , okay, but then

                   immediately after . 8 we never got any·':hing at all

                   from there on until aft er we were insi~rted and gone
                   to UHF No . 2.

        Conrad     I think it must be in the antenna problem, I really
                   do .
        Cooper     Well , there 's some problem there because the same

                   thing happened on one of the previous flights and

                   we definitely and completely lost radio and I

                   swi tched over just before we inserted,       I switched

                   over to number 2 and then when I call1~d but the

                   IVI's we were back with them then .

--- PAGE 26 ---
21



2. 19 Systems Status

        Cooper         System Status everything .. . .

        Conrad       We did have ...        Let me describe the delta P

                       lights .     Shortly after liftoff I got the number 1

                       fuel cell delta Plight and I reported i t and just

                       about t he time I reported it , then the number 2

                       fuel cell delta Plight came on .       They s tayed on

                       all the way through boost and they were on aft er

                       insertion for ten , fifteen seconds and after that


                 \     they went right back out again and that) i s it .

                       It didn't effect anything on the fue y e11 operation,

                       tn   currents , the voltages , / t h i n g stayed fine
                       other than        • bein    n----tliere was no other way of

                       telling the~ was out of tolerance so I don ' t think

                       it is a problem.     We expected it.
        Cooper         I ' m glad that we had them changed to orange rather

                       than red .

        Conrad         Yeah, yeah .

        Cooper         Systems status in addition to that I don ' t think we
                       had any systems that were exactly right , except

                       the radio and the acceleration as we had expected
                       it . We were right on the profile.       SECO was ...

2. 20 SECO


                                       !Oa!IIAL

--- PAGE 27 ---
22



         Conrad      I think we burned out at, Gordo, 7 anc. 1/4 g's.
         Cooper      Right.   SECO was exactly on time, just exactly on

                     time and IVI's read 002 AFT.       Almost ierfect.

2. 21   Steering
         Cooper      Steering was ... there was no steerine· accelerations

                     or velocities that we could tell.       Steering was

                     just smooth as silk , apparently they :t.ad us going

                     right down the slot .     And when we came off, apparently

                     we were lined up well because there weren ' t any

                     rates because when we came off and wajted our 20

                     seconds there were no rates whatsoever and it was

                     just setting there just . . . . as smootr.. as

          Conrad     As stable as a rock .

          Cooper     As smooth as silk so that and when we started

                     thrusting and separating we came off :ust right

                     straight forward .   No deviation , no skidding around

                     or anything.   Just right straight off,

          Conrad     I thought the IVI's were plus 2 .      That ' s what I haVle

                     written down here.      Plus 28 right , 3 t.p.

          Cooper     I guess that's what it was.
          FCSD REP   This velocity you read?
          Conrad     I was going to cover that in your ... ,
          Cooper     Your right, plus 2, it was -- that's :r·ight .       Plus

--- PAGE 28 ---
~IE>l!NTtAE                                 23


                   002 .

         Conrad    I have al l the computer readouts .
         Cooper    008 right and how many up?
         Conrad    3 up .
3 ,1   Post SECO

         Cooper    MANEUVER CONTROLLER worked fine .       We went right
                   through ....

         Conrad    Wel l, l et ' s go through t hat.   The way we had practice

                   SECO, Gordo, got SECO and Gordo unstowed the
                   CONTROLLER and I armed the BUS ARM Swit ch so that

                   we get the MSC- 1 doors OFF.
         Cooper    Brought the propulsion power ON.
         Conrad    Brought the ATTITUDE CONTROL Elect ric Power ON.
                   Went from RATE COMMAND to DIRECT.        Armed the

                   switch and hit the computer.        Armed t he sep

                   spacecraft thing and Gordo and I counted the

                   seconds down .     I n the meantime , I punched off
                   address 72 so that it was reading and then in 20

                   seconds we had SEP s/c . ...

         Cooper    In 20 seconds I start ed and I called it out and

                   started thrusting and Pete would hit the sep
                   spacecraft ... .

         Conrad    The reason we did that was so that we would have

--- PAGE 29 ---
the inertial velocity readout on the ga.ge and that

was ·beautiful 25,808 and nominal was S-.lpposed to be

25,807.   You can't ask for a better calculation
from a computer than that, and a lot of people

don ' t have much faith in that thing but, I think

that I'll bet that the computed MCC figure isn't

more than a foot or two off.   I t couldn ' t be

because everything was nominal for hours and hours

in the past,   Day's it went that way where we

stayed on the flight plan to the minute, to the

second so I know that it was a good computation,

and I have the five address readouts that we read ,

We read out address 72 as 25,808; address 94 which

was R dot for gamma was plus 20 feet which is

pretty darn small so we must have almos t a zero

gamma address 97 which is the forward IVI was plus

2 feet; address 52 was perfect , it was zero.      So
there was no adjustment needed and if there had

been an adjustment needed that would ha:ve come

at 3 , 042 seconds on the computer if tbere had been

an address .   52 correction and nominal 3,008

seconds so the computer computed the nomi nal thing

off only by less than a minute, about a half a

--- PAGE 30 ---
25


             minute of what the actual nominal value
             /een , s o I think thats pretty darn good
             ascent routine in that comput er, and I think hat
         (
             now that we have Math flow 6 in there t his i          why I
             think the guy shouldn't get so darn worried in MCC

                    underspeeds and giving them burn co/rections

                                        t his Mickey Movse.   I' ve been
             t rying to make tbis pein-t-ewe· since we got

             associat ed with . . . .

Cooper       I think we had better immediate data avail abl e on

             board than people have been giving it credit for .

Conrad       Tha t ' s right , and it really pleased me to see it

             come out on the computer this way.

Cooper       And had we never gotten our communications back

             we would have known tha t we were i n good shape

             because of the data we had on board, we didn ' t

             have to worry about the ground readouts and

             what to do ; we would have known what to do whether

             we had been under or over or anything else .

Cooper       Attitudes and rates , t here weren ' t any rat es .
             The thing was steered right down the s lot .      We

             came off smooth .

Conrad       Spacecraft separation


                      NflD~NTlAk

--- PAGE 31 ---
26                      CONF:10ENT-IA

         Cooper      We separated as smooth as silk just r i ,5ht straight
                                                                                .;;

                     ahead
         Conrad      Well, we counted down and Gordo said h? was

                     ready and I SEP spacecraft and he thru3ted and I

                     went back to RATE COMMAND for them and we came

                     straight off .   I didn't even feel it .     The first
                     t hing we felt was thrust .
         Cooper      And rolled upright and went to 000 00 - 15 which
                     happened to be right on the horizon.        As it

                     t urned out that 15 figure was good .      It read out
                     the IVI•s .

         FCSD REP    That's, you know on 4 . . . they thought they came
                     off the booster.
        Conrad      Yes, that's why I mentioned that because
        Cooper       That's what we were looking for, too,
3.2   SEGO Plus 20 Seconds

        Cooper      We've already mentioned the IVI displays .       Space­

                     craft separation occurred very smoothly.       Thrusting

                    was smooth , nothing wrong at all .     Attitude rates
                    were good.
        Conrad      Yes, I don't understand this!      I don't understand

                    this guy saying that they can't hear them or they

                    can ' t sense them.   Boy, I was easily aware . . . .

--- PAGE 32 ---
FHID~Nf lAL                             27



     Cooper                                  1/ than you can hear
                You can feel t hem almost mo,-e

                them.   You can feel them vibrate r eally, more than
..              you can hear them .      I mean , you can hear them

                too , but the vibrat ion you can hear them too, but

                t he vi bration you can f eel the thrust .

     Conrad     Have you ever heard a high speed hose or high speed

                water j et.   Shhh ... That 's the impression that I

                had.

     Cooper     Yes, that ' s right.

     FCSD REP   Even from the aft firing thruster?

     Cooper     Ever y thruster we had on t here.

     Conrad     We heard every thruster on the whol e f l ight

     Cooper     It never occurred in my mind when the thrus t ers

                were fired.    You can feel them and I can hear them.

                I couldn 't hear them in the sense of an expl osive

                sound or a roar .      It sounded like wat er swishing.

     Conrad     Yes , very definitely, more a Shhh .

     Cooper     And I was aware of it again when we made the burns

                l ater on, you know , we made the reverse coelliptic

                stuff and all that.

     FCSD REP   How did these noises , the thruster noises , sound

                compared with the way the last crew set the

                mission simulator?




                                                      '

--- PAGE 33 ---
28



     Conrad   Hey, that's another i nteresting point.

     Cooper   They're not very close on pulse.

     Conrad   Pulse is a ...                                           •
     Cooper   Pulse is more of a thump .

     Conrad   That 's the one sound that does sound like you ' d

              expect a rocket engine to sound .

     Cooper   Here ' s a sound just about like this :   (knock)

     Conrad   Yes , it very definitely sounds like a knock .

              There is no "shhh" or roar, just a little thud.

     Cooper   You can hear it just like somebody knccking at the

              back of the spacecraft .     You can hear it go "tap

              tap, tap , tap, tap, tap,"

     Conrad   Really, the simulator doesn I t sound tl:.e right way.

              It ' s a general enough nature and it tl::.e same type

              manner

     Cooper   Yes, it is close enough to give you a good cue.

     Conrad   The platform mode for instance , you krow, when i t

              goes shh, shh, shh, shh ... did the same thing i n

              the spacecraft except it was all in one thump

              and swooshes when it was constantly firing the

              thrusters it sounded like the swish.
     Cooper   The air-to- ground communications I thought was
              excellent the whol e time.     I didn't find anythi ng


                                                    ,

--- PAGE 34 ---
ONEl0EtslJl~E                                    29


                 wrong.

     Conrad      We really had good comm the whole flight.
..   Cooper      There was never a time -- the only time           the
                 only fault we find was one or two times through the

                 remote site when the MCC was trying to remote to

                 these sites they would get some fading.      I must

                 say the HF worked excellent.      When they were

                 ~ r ~ u s i c , broadcasting music to us, my\
                 gosh they had us practically the world round on

                '-----~ T h e music quality was quite _g0od
                 in most cases.

     Conrad      I got times on that we can bring out later so that
                 they can correlate how far
     Cooper      GO/NO GO , there wasn't any problem on that.       They

                 gave us the GO right away.

     FCSD REP    How long did it take them to give this?
     Cooper      Oh , heck, immediately.     Almost immediately.
                                  .> vveaf
     Conrad      There was no swivel because there was no velocity
                                  ~


                 correction.
     Cooper      There was no velocity correction needed.      Orbit

                 quantitites were good, they had those for us.

                 It took them quite a while to read us our experiments
                 but they just said you have a nominal orbit and then

                 mayb_e . . . .       .
                   eQNFIE>ENTl~t

--- PAGE 35 ---
I



       Conrad       I've got down here the GMT of liftoff .     I wrote down      ...
                    13 plus 59 plus 59 which they l ater change to 14
                    plus 00 plus 00 .    I have the one A time they got           "
                    it up to us okay, which was 10 pl us 11 .       Then I

                    have the 2 dash 1 they gave us was 01 pl us 27 plus

                    16 which they later revised to 01 plus 26 plus 27,

                    I wrote those down.

3. 3 Insertion Activities
       Cooper       Okay, l et ' s start on inser tion activities.     SAFE

                    t he swi tches we did that just right for our check­

                    list .   In fact , we are even more convinced than ever

                    that a good, thorough, accurate, checklist is the only

                    thing to have and

        Conr ad     Physically marked them off when they "·e r e done .

        Cooper      We followed it conscientiously.      The sequential

                    light t ests, we did it j ust by the teE.ts .     Stowage:;

                   . we already had modified our checklistE, ·and we already
                    had written on some of it that we would do these i f

                    we decided to.      For instance, the D- rlng safety pin,
                    we did install them at right t i me, and there was no

                    problem on those ; they wer e nruch easi•~r under zero- g

                    to get in and out than we had thought and I had no

--- PAGE 36 ---
.kQt4FIDfNJ1A.L,                                     31


             trouble getting my D-ring in, did you?
    Conrad   I waited on mine , remember.

.   Cooper   Yes , you waited . .. .

    Conrad   I s towed my D- ring thing

    Cooper   So we closed the cover immediately and I decided I

             woul d go ahead and see if I could get mine, and I

             got to i t right away and it went right in, so I

             put it in .

    Conrad   We, of course, got in trouble in the second orbit ,

             but we did not unstrap or put t he drogue pins in

             the seat or unstow any items of gear other than the

             flight plan books and the 16mm camera and the

             Hasselblad.    I take it back.   We went through the

             Flight Plan as advertised and then stowed the items.

             We had D-2 canera out, the Blob out, but we did this

             in the proper places in the Flight Pl an.   But we

             never did unstrap .

    Cooper   We never unstrapped and never put the drogue pins

             in until after we go to 6 - 4 GO.    We got a

             6 - 4 GO.

    Conrad   But we restowed too , after we got in t rouble .   We

             throught maybe having to go into 6-4 why,

             we'd put ourselves back into the configuration

--- PAGE 37 ---
32


                                                        to reenter
     Cooper                        were never up .       lready decided

              t hat I was not going to launch with th£~       They
                                                                          "
              are just useless as far as I am concerr..ed, and I

               as delighted I did not have them; and I didn ' t
              miss             I don't think, I think
              could remove th€m and
                                            -
     Conrad   The arm restraints are there for the pressurized

              case and high altitude ejection .      I did go with

              mine up .    I would prefer to go with thEim down, but

              there wasn't any reason , I didn ' t need to get my

              hands on the hand control or anything ~.o I left

              them as they were, but I don' t think tr.ey were
              necessary.




                                                        •

--- PAGE 38 ---
FtDENTtAL                                   33


Cooper   Okay, belts .    I couldn ' t   ~~                            he

         belts .   The harness - While we 're on the harness , I

         don ' t like that harness worth anything.
         t hink what we need is a simple type adjustable type

         harness wi th clips on the legs         that you can undo

         legs to get to some of the functions you have to :

         uri pation and defecation and so on in the spacecy ft .

         I do ' t see why we have to have a big, expensi/e, custom,

         made ha~ss that you can ' t readily get on             off

         and this on~ you can not readily get                     and if

         you had one with                                  on it and snaps

         like you do on                               harness , it would

         be, I think, a hundred times useful as this one .

Conrad   Let me ask you a ~uestion .        Do you really - now , do

         you r eally - I agree.      Let me say this .    I agree you

         should firs t be able to get your harness on and off,

         but in zero- g I ' m not convinced that three , especially

         two leg snaps type arrangement.          In other words , a

         harness that would come completely loose and have

         many straps that hitch to the other straps would be

         really good in zero- g .        What I think we need to do is
         to be able to get in and out of that harness that we

         have , easier.    Like, maybe you could loosen the leg
         straps on it but not have them come apart .         Now , I

           ~       NftDENTrAL

--- PAGE 39 ---
took my harness off in flight twice .      I took 1 em
                                                                          "
         off once--

Cooper   Yeah, but you wouldn ' t even have to step through these         ::


         leg loops if you had - just like on an airplane harness .

         You could undo that and you wouldn ' t eve·'.l. have to worry

         about the leg loops .   Then all you 1 d have to do is just

         slide out of the torso area.

Conrad   Yeah.   Well» lets sees that ' s what I' m saying.     If you

         unhook both of those leg loops and you throw the whole

         thing down in the footwell and then you pull it back up

         again you got a leg strap floating off ever here and

         you got a - -

Cooper   Well that ' s no problem.   It ' s no worse i.han it is find­

         ing your lap belt .     Did you ever have i;rouble getting

         your lap belt back on after you took it off?

Conrad   I always hitched it on the Velcro over on the side .

Cooper   But you never had any trouble ~      ting t o it. I didn ' t .
                                          /


         I let mine float free and I never had any trouble getting

         t o them at all .

Conrad   Well , I just don 1 t lmow now. I really d:i.dn ' t think it

         was that bad getting in and out of this harness .        My

         only concern was that if- - I stayed- -

Cooper   How many times did you get i n and out o f it?


                         ~

--- PAGE 40 ---
( OhJFt0!                                           35


Conrad   Twice .   The big problem was having you unhitch the

         straps on my suit .

Cooper   That ' s right .   With the cables to go over the harness .
Conrad   The harness--the easiest thing was getting in the legs .

         That was no problem at all .

Cooper   Yeah.
Conrad   Where I needed help was getting over my shoulder and

         getting the straps on the suit hitched back up again,

         which is a two man operation.

Cooper   Well , my point is that for normal wearing around the

         pad area or wearing around when your suited and every­

         thing, you ' d be much more comfortable if you could have

         those straps loose where they ' re not gouging you in

         the legs ,

Conrad   Yes , well-- Oh, I agree.

Cooper   Or where you had adjustments on them . ...

Conrad   . .. adjustments see--

Cooper   Okay, well .

Conrad   Where you coul d     make the legstraps loose but you' d

         never disconnec t them so you don ' t have free floating
         straps around t here .    It was no big problem ....

Cooper   My suggestion would be to have them exactly like you

         did in a parachute harness .     You have the leg adjust-

--- PAGE 41 ---
ment and on that same fitting you have the little snap
                                                                                  "
             wher e you can unsnap in the places you want to .
Conrad       Oh yes , you dan do it either way.      Sure .

Cooper       You cou,Yd either loosen them or--I just thi         we've
             gone to such complex tailoring devices in orde

         f      ovide some company with a great elaborate pro               of
             providing expensive harnesses that they .. .                  per-
             sonally don ' t think they ' re worth a darn for what they're

             ·ntended for .    I don ' t think you gain that much .    I

             think'y~u loose a lot of it .

Conrad                                                        ~       stow

             that harness .

Cooper       The life 7 est.    Now I disagree wit    everybody that ' s ever

             said that those aren ' t in the way.      e were them all
             theI time mainly because we didn ' t hav a darn place to

             s i ore them and they're a pain in the Ii,leck t o get on and

             off but they are really in the way.       The;r ' re in the way

             @f everything you do .    They bump int0 your arms .

             Tbey ' re there to cut down visibilit     on ;rour chest and

             they ' re just a nuisance,
Conrad       Yeah ,   e didn ' t have a place t   store them.
Cooper       We didn ' t                    store them or we'd have taken

             them off and left them off .     I am here t o say t hat I

--- PAGE 42 ---
ONFTDENTl~t                                       37


         think they ' re r eally bad where they are .

Conrad   After the big sweat was over and we got a GO and we

         were relatively sure we were going to stay there for

         awhile unless we , you lmow, had some other emergency

         come up , I would have preferred to take off the harness

         and the life jacket and stow it somewhere if we ' d

         have had a place to stow it .

Cooper   Right .

Conrad   But the other thing is that maybe that ' s just my per­

         sonal feeling .   I ' m extremely meticulous and we kept

         that spacecr aft as empty as possible .        Everything had

         it ' s place and it stayed in it ' s place .

Cooper   And that harness and the vest--are pret t y big, bulky

         items -

Conrad   And I wasn ' t going to have it rattling around down there

         on the floor , loose .

Cooper   Okay, on the drogue pins .      By golly, I thought those

         new l i ttle things on the drogue pins made them very easy

         to get in and out.       There wasn ' t a bit of problem wit h

         those .

Conrad   I popped the drogue pins in and out on mine .

Coope~   I put mine i n or out once just to ... .

Conrad   I think Gordo put his own in and out once to see if he

--- PAGE 43 ---
could do it and he coul d .     That worked real well .

Cooper     Okay.      Fuel Cell o and Fuel Cell Hydrogen Quantity Read .
                                 2
           Yes , we read them at least a million times .        Fuel Cell
                                                                              •
            Power Readings .    Yes , everything checked out fine on

            t hose.   Bermuda 2- 1 update : fine .    Orbital Flight .

FCSD Rep   You ' d better get out your flight plan on this because

            t his is the original stuff I was telling you about .

Conrad     Well , that ' s all right .    This probably will go fairly....

FCSD Rep   All three , if you go the way you did it.

4.0 Orbital Flight
Cooper     Okay, on 4 . 0 Orbital Fli ht . Platform Alinement.

Conrad     There ' s our first problem .

Cooper     There ' s our first problem.     Our plat orm mode did not

           work and I don ' t lmow what ' s wrong wit           but the

           darn thing does not zero out                       on the space­
                 I

           craft.     It allows a good                      e to sit in
            there and won ' t zero it out and it is ex remely s l oppy

            ·n pitch .   The whole thing, I think tb7:r was something
           ~rong with the whole thing because it d esn ' t work at
             I
           a \ 1 like the ones in the simulator, an        the whole thing
                                                                              ...
           plu's or minus a half a degree                  a very, ver y

                            system                   lucky to be plus or



           thing really wrong with it .      I personall y think that

--- PAGE 44 ---
~ pl&f~T A~                                         39
                   \

          something was wired up wrong or something in i t because

          it was not working right .

Conrad    We didn ' t really get a chance to evaluate it too well

          because we had trouble with it so we stopped using it

          and by the time we ' d been able to do anything with it

          we had other problems , fuel problems and so forth . So

          we never did get back to using it again .

Cooper    Well, we had other control system problems which were

          overpowering, platform problem wise , but we did try one

          burn on the platform and it was a terrible mistake .        The

          darn thi ng did not have the accuracy to really hold it

          and we got one foot per second in and out of plane there .
Conrad    Yeah.    That was in those coeliptic .

Cooper    In one of those , that coeliptic burns and we ~ade our

          other burns then on Rate Command       and man, that Rate

          Command system is just beautiful .       It holds that space­

          craft so tight that it can ' t vary.

Conrad    Yeah .   We had a beautiful control system, I thought .     When

          Gordo made any of the burns on the Rate Command or

          anything l i ke that it really responded -- well.

Coope1:   Rate Command has tremendous torqueing.       Boy, it ' s strong

          and it ' s instantaneous and you can just stop it right on

          the money.    Really good.

--- PAGE 45 ---
40



     FCSD Rep   Okay, on this platform alinement thing.    You went to

                SEF and caged and SEF and Platform Control Mode,

     Cooper     We pitched down to visual when we went to CAGE and then

                went to SEF and we went to Platform mode and after fid­

                dling around with it awhile we decided the Platform mode

                wouldn ' t work so I went to Pulse and then I , just using

                my needles , Platform needles then , I just pulsed the er­

                rors out until we torqued around and got the ... got

                it ... on a fine line.

     Conrad     Okay, Now , there ' s no doubt in my mind that the Primary

                Scanners , there ' s no doubt in my mind now, but we lost

                on Primary Scanners .    We started to aline the primary

                Scanners and I don ' t think we ever got to platform a line

                correctly because the primary scanners were not working

                correctly,

     Cooper     Now the primary scanners,     The funny part of it is the

                Primary Scanner was working in such a rr.anner - working

                just enough, that it checked right because when we checked

                out t he alinement of it and the tolerances on it it was

                working fine ,   but there was something in it on one of

                the tests that we did later showed thai it was actually

                driving, tending to drive the spacecraft down .

     Conrad     Continuing to torque you down to about fifteen degrees

                nose- down ,

--- PAGE 46 ---
•            41



    Cooper     Or more .
.
    Conrad     In other words , it continued to try to aline t he platform

               at about fifteen degrees . It tried to put the nose on t he

               horizon is what it did .

    FCSD Rep   It tried to aline the platform up at fifteen degrees

               nose down?

    Cooper     Or more .    I figured it was about somewhere around-­

               Well , one time it alined us at about 40 degrees nose

               down and it still was indicating in scanner limits .

    Conrad     The scanner got worse as the flight went on, but I don ' t

               think it ever worked correctly .

    Cooper     No . I don't think it did , now I look back .

    Conrad     That ' s the thi ng right there and I think that this- -

               I 'd l i ke to know what they decided from tracking the

               REP on how we put the REP out because we put the REP

               out in the proper position, but I don ' t think the

               platform was alined correctly . We had trouble with that

               scanner in the sunlight on the horizon and this was right
               when we were using it to aline - j ust before we put the

               REP out .

    Cooper     Just as we were using it to aline and put t he REP out ,

               the Scanner began to skew all the platform needles off

               and it skewed off and , --went to ORBIT RATE.

--- PAGE 47 ---
42                                              L

     Conrad         Now wait til we get the onboard tapes because the tape
                                                                                       ..
                    recorder was working and this all is on the onboard tape ;

                    the conversation that Gordo and I had about that.      So

                    we weren ' t really sure it was working right but it
                f
                    wasn 't that far off that we were going in the dark--

     Cooper .       Approximately 30 seconds before we had to pitch around

                    or had to yaw around to eject the REP, I had to go back

                    to CAGE and try getting a real rapid P] a tform aline in

                    there , SEF and PULSE and I had the neec.les zeroed and we

                    may not have been so far off but you don ' t know .    That

                    isn ' t enough time to really get it alined.   In other

                    words .   I had about the time we did it and got there we

                    probably had maybe , 30 seconds to Plat::orm aline .    That ' s

                    about all we had .

     Conrad         Well , we were just hoping that if it had been pulled off

                    only in pitch why, you know , we ' d get it right--we'd pull

                    the pitch right back in again.

     Cooper         But the scanner was acting up very badly by that time .

     FCSD Rep       How long did you aline the Platform initially?

     Cooper         Initially, we alined the platform for about 15 to 20

                    minutes and it seemed to aline allright although at that

                    time Pete and I had a discussion right then that we seemed

                    to be alining nose down .

--- PAGE 48 ---
Conrad   Now , you see .    Here ' s something that I've never heard

         from the other guys .

Cooper   Now there ' s another thing.     See, we never had a simulator
         to show us .      Never once did we have any darn thing to

         show us what out the window should look like .

Conrad   And when the Platform is alined and you ' re zero- zero- zero ,
         boy, oh boy! That ' s a , just -- It's a very peculiar looking

         situation and it ' s not what I expected to see at all .

Cooper   No , it isn' t me either .

Conrad   And I ' ve never heard either Gus of John or Jim and Ed say

         "Put a little gouge out"       Now I ' ve got a gouge tha t I

         can draw for you where I 'm sure tha t I can put the Plat­

         form in roll and pitch within a degree in roll and pitch

         of where it should be out the window on the horizon and

         it ' s by using the corner of the window and the RCS

         thrusters on the front : the front RCS yaw        thruster in
         the lower corner of the window and you can put the

         Platform-- you can put the spacecraft zero- zero and roll

         and pitch just, well , like that.       We didn ' t know that

         before we went .

Cooper   This is one of my strongest recommendations if we aren ' t

         going to have any kind of a visual out the window display
         at least we ought to get some of the great planners to



                                                •

--- PAGE 49 ---
44
                                                                      •
                                                         -----
                 draw up on a piece of paper what the window , what the
                                                                                               ;:

                 horizon should look like through the window whic~                    d

                 requested several times and never got -- to show ~~~) guy
                 what          these various things should look like out the
                    ......__
                 window;'---...We spent the whole darn eight days trying to

                                            ~rt=--'l;fl:e-s-0--~ ~ ~43 ~ould   look like

                 and I'm not sure we were very clear on it to the day

                 we re- entered,

     Conrad      Yeah.

     Cooper      Now that 's ridiculous!          And it ' s becau:3e of this odd

                 angle that you sit off in there .             It completely fouls

                 up everytning, as to getting these various angles :

                 inverted and right side up and 90 degrees angles and

                 all this .

     Conrad   / 1think we ought t;=-I ' ll tell you i ; ~ d recommen­

                 dation for the guys who are going to

                 do this on GT- 7 with that Hasselblad can take a pound

                 or two of fuel and sit up there and pl:.otograph

                 the camera back inside the spacecraft                               get

                 the window perspective in this thing .

                 zero- zero- zero , bank right 90 , bank lnft 90 , at               ifferent

                 nose pitches above the horizon ,




                     <iOt◄r          ,e eNirrXt

--- PAGE 50 ---
Really , we sat ther e and had hours worth of discussions

           in drifting flight when we'd be drifting through , you

           know , and we ' d say, "Hey, doesn ' t that l ook like they'r:e

           about 30 degrees nose up and roll right 60 degrees?" and

           then we ' d try to find those lines and match them and

           see . . . there ' s an awful lot of learning there .   By

           golly, if we ' d have a Platform Aline Gouge , a visual

           gouge idea , we'd have picked up this trouble right off

           the bat.   We real ly didn't think the platform. was

           alined right , but we really didn't have anything to

           tell us t hat it wasn ' t .

Cooper     Now looking a t it where we know now after we went to the

           other scanner finally and we got proper operation knowing

           what we learned during the flight it appears now like

           we were--the number one scanner was trying to aline us

           several degrees down over what it should.

Conrad     Yeah.

FCSD Rep   Did you ever go back to Primary after that?

Cooper     Oh . We checked it a lot of times after that and tried

           it numerous times and it got worse and worse and worse

           and it finally was actually driving the spacecraft down

           to minus 90 degrees and still the scanner, that ' s the

           funny part of it , the scanner wouldn't go off until you

           were about 60 degrees below the horizon.

--- PAGE 51 ---
46


     Conrad   It seems to me we ' ve got some data for them on Primary

              scanner over the states so they could h~ve it on telemetry,

              They should be able to find out what happened on that ,

     Cooper   Yes , something was really fouled up , I think ,   Insertion

              Check List--

     Conrad   We went through it by the numbers ,

     Cooper   By the numbers , Thruster and Control Mode Check - we went
              t hrough by the numbers.   Everything was fine .

     Conrad   Well , we were a little bit late,     We get a little bit

              behind and it was about the time when we were late per­

              forming the thruster control mode check because that was

              supposed to be done before you got to the Canaries and

              we did it after the Canaries .

     Cooper   That ' s right ,

     Conrad   We were behind, but we started catchine: up .




                                                      ,

--- PAGE 52 ---
ee,~FID El'<ITIAI!-

Cooper     Com Systems Check.     We were right on the money, on time ,

           on that .

FCSD Rep   Everything checked out okay on that?

Cooper     Yeah.

FCSD Rep   Com System?

Conrad     D- 4, D- 7, I did by checkoff list and checked out
           okay over Carnarvon.

Cooper     6-4 GO/NO GO, well , that was quite late .
Conrad     No.     We got a GO for 6- 4 over Carnarvon .   That's

           just to get past 2- 1.

Cooper     Okay, Yeak Okay, got the 6- 4 GO/NO GO, that ' s right,

           D- 4, D-7 GO/NO GO .    Those were right on the money

           and everything was fine there.      Third adjustment

           maneuver.

Conrad     Was nominal

Cooper     Was nominal     end everything was fine there.     Power
           down D-4, D- 7 was nominal . 16mm, 35mm, D-6 equipmert

           unstowed and mounted and there we begin to deviate

           a little because just prior to this time we began
           to get this rapid decrease in the -well- where

           was it there?

Conrad     It was - let me go into the log-book here for one

           second because I got some.

--- PAGE 53 ---
48
                                                     -
     FCSD Rep   This Perigee adjust.      Did you do that i::1 Rate- is

                that the one you did in Rate Command?        Or is that

                the one you tried in PLATFORM?                            ~


     Cooper     Did that in PLATFORM and it worked fine on that one.

                Did that one in PLATFORM and it worked ,~eat, but

                then on some of these other burns we did I tried
                it in PLATFORM and it really didn 1 t work well at

                a ll.    That 's why I rather suspect the P::.ATFORM

                thing.     There's something wrong with it .    I think

                i t was better at some times than others .      It was
                allowing a lot of drift.
     Conrad     Okay, in the log book I have it at 50 m:.nutes which
                is just prior to Carnarvon that I found the Fuel

                Cell o2 and H Heater Circui t Breaker OFF. Now
                             2
                that--I found it off because they told us to heat
                the Hydrogen not the Oxygen, but the Hydrogen final ­

                ly drilled down to the 220 and they want ed us to

                use the heater and I turned the heater on and I

                noticed that I didn 1 t get any ammeter rise and so

                I looked at the circuit breaker panel and the

                Circuit Breaker was OFF.      So, now in ret rospect
                seei?hg·the o ON which is on the same circuit
                             2
                breaker burned out, I'm sure that it blE,w when this
                thing burned out,
                                                         f

--- PAGE 54 ---
..
FCSD Rep   We were at the power do':m. on the D- 4 and D- 7.

Conrad     Oh Yeah.    Well, about that time I think we were

           getting back on the Flight Plan.      We got the 16mm

           out.    We got the 35mm out.

Cooper     D- 6 equipment was

Conrad     Well, it ' s really D-2, it ' s what it was and I had

           that work so I decided, "I ' ll put together in

           pieces at the blob and the camera put together

           separately and they had it all loaded with the

           right film and everything and had it on the floor,

           and we were ready to go . "

FCSD Rep   Were you pushed for time to do this?

Conrad     We were right on the money.      We finally caught up

           after Canaries and we were on the schedule at

           Carnarvon.

Cooper     Yeah.    We were in good shape at Carvarvon .

Cooper     Radar test #6, at 01 : 30, that worked fine .    We did
           bring it on.    It worked .    Observed the transients

           on R dot, range and range rate.       6- 4 Preretro command
           load came out fine .   Blood pressure on the Command

           Pilot there past Carnarvon, let's see .      Now that

           was back over the Cape here, yeah.

Conrad     No , you broke the O-ring didn ' t you?    Right off the


                                   IAL

--- PAGE 55 ---
:JI
50



                bat we broke the 0- ring.
                                                                             ..
     Cooper     That 's right . That ' s right .   That 's the first

                one .   We broke the 0- ring and couldn ' t give them

                that blood pressure .

     Conrad     I think that was the one.

     Cooper     That 's right.     We fina l ly gave that one up ,     The

                0-ring was broken on that one.

     FCSD Rep   Let's see .   This first blood pressure that you got

                an hour ...

     Conrad     They got that one and then when Gordo--

     Cooper     When I, When we transferred over to me and I

                plugged it in the ... 0-ring broke and ,:e didn't

                have time for tha t pass again .

     Conrad     We had a bunch more 0-rings .       I forget when we fixed

                it but we fixed it .. .

     Cooper     Fixed somewhere around there.
     Conrad     ... shortly thereafter .

     Cooper     M-1 experiment .
     Conrad     We turned it on on time .

--- PAGE 56 ---
51



      Cooper     Yeah .   I got a lot of comments later on that on.           That
..
                 thing is so noisy.

      Conrad     Oh, you know , I found out what happened, you know .           They

                 went back and recomputed and they found out they had four

                 days worth of air in the bottle--Ha Ha!

      FCSD Rep   Four days?

      Conrad     Yeah.    It ran out .

      Cooper     But the thing.      You can turn it off and it keeps run­

                 ning back there .       And it goes SMACK- CHOO , SMACK- CHOO ,

                 SMACK- CHOO .

      Conrad     Yeah, it 1 s pretty noisy.

      Cooper     And in a real ~uiet cockpit it really sounds loud .

      FCSD Rep   This radar test #6 here at O1:3O-

      Cooper     Used to turn the radar on.

      Conrad     Used to turn it on.

      FCSD REP   Used to turn it to standby.

      Cooper     Turn it to standby and warm it up .

      Conrad     Used to observe the warmup transients .

      FCSD REP   And all this happened, right?

      Conrad     Yes , and it 1 s on the voice tape.       Like Gordo said,
.,.
                 you lmow, what the radar needle did ,         What it does is it

                 has sort of a cyclic thing when you put it in standby

                 and it 1 s ready to run why it sits there and the lock on

--- PAGE 57 ---
52                                             L

                l ight blinks Green/OFF, Green/OFF.

     Cooper     Lock on light will blink on and it will come out R and

                R dot will go from peg to peg.          And they 'll settle out

                when it really is warmed up good and you' ve gotten past

                the transient periods and they ' ll all come back to zero .

     Conrad     I think what they ' re looking for are clues to tell you

                that the set is warming up correc t ly.           Ba.ck in the

                early days of TACAN we had warmup problems.

     FCSD REP   In other words , this would be your firnt indication if

                something was wrong?

     Cooper     Purge Section.      One and Two .

     Conrad     Well , we got our first load , this 6-4 load.           The first

                load that came up over the DCS system and it came up right

                over the Cape.

     Cooper     Purge Section.      One and Two .     Got that?

     Conrad     Yes , no . Yes . That ' s when we were getting rushed .          Let ' s
                go back to that .     Let ' s stop right there.       The REP was

                supposed to go out at 02 : 07 and I purg·ed early and I

                always had been purging early because I purged it about
                1+50 and then I went through the check off list and they

                were all checked off here.          I powered up at 1+50 , I
                purged the fuel cells and here I checked them off here.

                . . . prop gauge experiments and the RAD 1 on and the cold

--- PAGE 58 ---
53


         IR on and the power on the exmitter on and the recorder

         off and I went through these by the numbers .       Com­

         puter, we went to Catch- Up . We had the hundred feet

         in the window .   We were really getting ready to

         put the REP out and right then and there was when we came

         over the hill and we were beginning to get to the dark

         side you know, and the sun was getting low and that ' s

         when the scanner started going out ,

Cooper   That's when the scanner started dropping out .

Conrad   And we started getting the scanner light and then now ,

         you got to visualize there ' s part of the problem. We're

         coming into this "Fuzzy Zone"- horizon and that is the

         best way to describe it .

Cooper   Yeah, you can't see anything.

Conrad   And the spacecraft looks like you're pitched up        tremen­

         dously when you're zero- zero- zero to begin with and we

         both had the impression that the scanner was pitching

         us up.   Well , that may not have been true.    It just

         may have been that that's the way the sky got to looking

         as we approached the dark side zero- zero- zero .

Cooper   Actually, you have a transition point there where you

         cannot see the horizon and it doesn ' t look like either
         sky or earth or anything.    It's a complete blank ,

--- PAGE 59 ---
Conrad     It ' s really a grey area.

FCSD REP   Right at dusk.

Conrad     Yeah.

Cooper     Right at dusk or right at sunrise.

Conrad     Yeah. Now the first time we went through there we didn ' t

           even see it .      We were working.    That wan right after
           insertion .     So, mind you , this is the s1~cond time we

           got to see it and I can' t emphasize thii, point enough,

           even though we were on the flight plan and everything

           else, you got to let the guys learn what ' s going on up

           there.    You haven't been up there befor~ in that darn

           vehicle you've got to learn it . That ' s :right where we

           started getting in trouble .

Cooper     That ' s right .    That's the exact point t ·:1.at we made .

Conrad     I made it for six months now.
Cooper     For many, many months we've made this over this flight

           plan, sticking this REP, thi s whole REP thing in that

           early in the Flight Plan before you really have a chance

           to get the systems ironed out and checked over and

           everything and if everything goes exactly right and

           nothing fails you can run through it time and time and

           time and time again and you'll make it and you ' ll make
           it on time.

--- PAGE 60 ---
55


     Conrad       Yeah.

     Cooper       But you add one little failure in there and you ' ve had

                  it .

     Conrad ,     Yeah . That ' s where I made my first mistake.    We got

                  purged in an hour and 50 minutes and I was going by the

                  check off list and right there we got in this discussion

                  about what was happening to the platform and I missed

                  the most important thing on the check off l ist .     I for-

                  got to                                           • st as sim-

                                  That ' s the whole G-- d-----­

              /   been running for the D- 4 cold IR, it ' s been our biggest
                  constraint and a thing that I knew as well       as my right

                  arm but there was a glitch and the glitch got us off
       \          the scheduled activities and I missed it bigger than

                   eek.    I di                                       -
                                                ors on the cold IR and it ' s

                  a ll my fault and I accept the blame for it .    We went
                  through this quickie aline business and we got turned

                  around and Gordo had it right on the money, we wer e

                  right out of plane and we got the REP out 15 seconds

                  late.    It went out at 02+07+15 and we turned around,

                  waited for one minute, got the radar on, locked on it
..                and we were whistling away from it and I was back on
                  the Flight Plan and happy as a clam when I suddenly

--- PAGE 61 ---
@OMFIBEt4t4A.L

         decided that something wasn't reading right and I realized
                                                                        C


         that I hadn ' t blown the doors on the cold IR and I blew

         them and at that time the REP was at 25JO feet from us ,

         which is the end of the experiment, but I think it was

         still reading- -

Cooper   But it was still reading on the, according to the gage .

Conrad   Yeah . I think that cold IR read to a great, great thing.

         Now , the Radar gage, this is where--here comes the next

         mystery- the radar gage said the REP waE leaving us at

         this point in time and that--

Cooper   Five feet per second?

Conrad   Yeah. I have 3 1/2 feet per second written down .

Cooper   Oh, at that particular point .     Oh, wel:. i t - - when we

         first got our first measurement on it ·;he range rate on

         my analog dial over there read exactly 5 feet per second

         that it was going away from us .

Conrad   Yeah. Okay.

Cooper   Right on the money.

Conrad   To go back to the D- 4 in time it was 0.2, it was 02+ 16+ 15

         when I blew the doors , which was corre3ponding to

         2500 feet and I ran that REP D- 4 recorder until 02+37+12
         and--okay, now.    That darn REP!    Gordo had the needles

         right on the REP and that REP was going straight out

         from us at 270 on the ball .     It just went , I just
           'COr'1FIDEtfJal>Att

--- PAGE 62 ---
, CO► I F 1 DE NJ:1A t                                                      57

              thought everything was going perfect .                        The REP was

              moving       just exactly out of plane away from us and

              it was moving at about the right velocity and then the

              mystery came.           It just kept on going.

Cooper        Yeah.

Conrad        It kept right on going straight out, and-­

Cooper        It wasn't slowing down very much.

Conrad        And I got over here on the graph and I kept reading

              the mileage and we were up to about 7 feet a second.

              It was leaving us , and I realized, I began to think ,

              well gee, this is-              That ' s when I was really convinced

              that the platform wasn't alined and we must have kicked

              it out some screwy way.                 Then it started to drift : ~

              us quite fast .           It finally did peak out an                        ent               )
         -----------
              a ~ ...--n:-~---------;---:--:--:-----;------:-:--:;-,i"'T"--,-----,-----r-;-;:--:-:--­
                       he corner at some phenomenal dis ance ,

              was almost nine tenths of a mile away from us , but
                                                                 drift aft quite rapid

              and .when we got to the nodal crossing time , it was behin~ (

              us by a mile , according to the radar.                        Now this is all             /
               on radar.        And now , mind you, it ' s nighttime and it was

               right there.          We could see it plain as day.

Cooper         Okay, let ' s see, we were at the--

Conrad         Okay, that's when we got to this next screwy thing.

--- PAGE 63 ---
See, the REP went straight out and kept on going.               C



Cooper    The REP goes straight out and then it just kept on

          going.   It was slowing down very l ittle and just kept on

          going and going and going and going.
Conrad    And it never really stopped.    What it d:Ld was it

          sorta, it sorta starting going off this way, you !mow,

          and it never got out to a node point wh~re you had
          a definite stopping range and a start back in again.

          Well , the range rate never got below a foo t per second .
Cooper    The range rate never decreased.      You never got a decrease
          in range rate , but it just kept- it started drifting slowly

          of f the 270 line on back out, but it we·nt straight
          out the 270 line to a- -
Conrad

Cooper    What was the range?   Do you remember what the range was
          when it sti ll was out there?
Conrad    It went straight like relative motion to us would

          have looked like it went out looking down a plan form,
          if we were here.   It looked like it went out like this
          and it slowly started doing this .
Cooper    Yeah.
Conrad.   And it never did have a stop to it.     It finally crossed
          behind us back in here someplace.

--- PAGE 64 ---
eNftOf                                         59



    Cooper   We never got the point where it crossed behind us be­
"
             cause somewhere when it was about the 210 point was when

             we were out of fuel, of fuel cell o .
                                                 2
    Conrad   Yeah, well , you see, we went by Carnarvon--

    Cooper   And this was coming down just BALOOM BALCOM BALOOM

             BALCOM BALCOM.

    Conrad   See, here we go .   We went by Carnarvon.   Here I was trying

             to figure out in here what was going on and what we

             were going to take out and everything and we went by
             Carnarvon and right here at Carnarvon and that's when

             Charlie .. . called up and says check your o2 heater

             switch to AUTO .    Now I had seen it fall , had noticed

             that it had been falling and I had gone to the AUTO
             position when without even being told --

    Cooper   You had already gone to nanua.l.

    Conrad   And then I was doing many other things and I decided
             it wasn ' t coming up and so I'd gone to manual and held

             it over there a couple times and sort of looked at it

             and --

    Cooper   That didn ' t work either.

    Conrad   I must have kidded myself into thinking that I was
             getting something out of it, and then I forgot it

             again and then~-

--- PAGE 65 ---
60



     Cooper   :But you did go back to the AUTO.

     Conrad   Yeah . I put ii; back in AUTO , you know , and then I called

              t hem, I think it was on the tape and I think I told

              them, I said, the S'f!litch is on AUTO .   We're okay.

              Don ' t worry about it and then right aft er that we got up
              to this 240 or so in there and we realjzed that something

              was wrong and the heater was out and I guess we told

              them--We told them at Carnarvon that t he heater was out .

     Cooper   Well, we checked at that time then on ·~he annneter on
              and off and on and off t hat on both manual and AUTO and

              it was obvious .

     Conrad   And that ' s when we--

     Cooper   And it was coming down so rapidly that it looked like

              very shortly thereafter we were going t o have fuel

              cell stoppage..

     Conrad   We were getting below 200 and falling pretty fast and

              we had a big discussion between ourselves and we just

              made up our mind to forget the REP.        We felt we were

              really in trouble.

     Cooper   So we elected at that point to start rowering down because

              we knew that we were using fuel cells a t a very high

              rate .

     Conrad   And we secured the Platform and Radar and everything else.

--- PAGE 66 ---
r
               ~               ENTI~ -                            61



     Cooper   So we said okay and we ' re stopping it right here and of

              course about this time we were in the boondocks area

              away from everybody as always occurs.

     Conrad   We were between Carnarvon and Hawaii .

     Cooper   And--so we just started powering down everything and

              holding on.

     Conrad   So from there on we were off the Flight Plan.

     Cooper   From here on to the next twenty orbits the REP was

              right with us. Ha, Ha, Ha !

     Conrad   That ' s what I cam't figure out .   How did it get 375
              miles from us when it hung around f or 5 orbits?    That

              darned thing.    Everytime we went on the night side-

     Cooper   It was so--

     Conrad   As a matter of fact, I didn't see it for a time or two

              and then all of a sudden, the nose of the spacecraft was

              lighting up !

     Cooper   We even saw it in the day side .     It was so near we could

              even see it in the day side and at the transit areas when

              the light woul d be shining on it we ' d be just going into

              the darkness we could look back and you could even see i;

              the dipole on it as it tumbled.      The tumble rate was very,
..            very slow.

     Conrad   And then you guys called up and told us it was 375 miles

--- PAGE 67 ---
62



                                                                       C

     Cooper   That s impossible.
                  1
                                    That thing wasn't that far

              away.   It hung right in there.
     Cooper   I think that 's the whole things .

     Cooper   But 1 1 11 tell you there were two differnnt night

              sides we went into.    Several- -

     Conrad   Two different night sides- -well , I reaU y-- i t

              wouldn 1 t have surprised me if it had hit us.

     Cooper   Me either.   It seemed to me like it was a lot closer.

     Conrad   That 's what made me think that well, th? platform

              was aligned and I don't know what exactly happened.
              I did notice that it sort of climbed on us.         So

              then I had the feeling that maybe it was doing sort

              of a figure eight type thing.       That maybe we had

              fired it off up or down a little bit yoQ know .

              .And it was in three dimensions ; a little bi t out

              of plane working it's way around us , backing up

              and going a.head and coming back around because the

              darn thing was always there .       It was there until

              the darn lights burned out on it.        Anyti me we

              wanted to find it if you wanted to move t he

              spacecraft around you could find it out there .




                 EOl"'lf!ltJEt ◄ =F hA. L

--- PAGE 68 ---
Cooper   It was close enough so that almost any attitude

             you were in you could see i t shining on the

             spacecraft.       Even if it was clear back out here

             you could see the nose just lighting up from it.

    Conrad   So I know it couldn ' t have been too darn far away.

             I mean maybe up to five miles or something l ike

             that , but it didn ' t get that far away from us .     I

             don ' t understand the 375.     I was really surprised

             that those guys called up and said it was 375 miles

             away.   1



    Cooper   Yes.    Well , I don't believe that figure.

    Conrad   It will be real interesting to see what they dig

             out f r om it .   Well, all the radar and everything

             we had is on the tape , isn't it?

    Cooper   Well, that was our first big heart breaker .

    Conrad   We ought to be able to put that all together .

    Cooper   After all the work we did on t he REP , then not

             to pull the rendezvous out , we sure--

    Conrad   Well , from there until we got the GO to 6- 4 we

             just were along for the ride .     We just stayed--

    Cooper   I knew that--I was just so sure of all the time we

.            put in simulating that darn thing I just had a

             queasy , uneasy feel i ng that maybe we better put

--- PAGE 69 ---
64


              in more time on other things .

              That something was going to go wrong-~

     Conrad   I felt every problem that we had I felt real

              good about the fact that we had either t he smarts

              t o lmow that it was straight forward--    It didn't

              take too long to figure out that that h1~ater was

              on one line, both heaters , and that we'd had a

              single point failure.   And as a mat ter- of - fact we

              t ook the schematics out.

     Cooper   And there's another argument for our ha-ring it;' for

              when it occured there wasn ' t anybody around to ask

              advice .

     Conrad   I t was very straight forward to throw t he switches

              and look at the amp meter to see whethe:c you were

              getting anything out.   There was no dou·:it in my

              mi nd that it had burned out and the sam,= daml

              thing with the thrusters.   When we finally decided

              we had a problem with them we went through the
              ci rcuit breakers just like we did in th= trainer

              and it was obvious that number 7 was out and 8

              went out and then the rest of them started getting sour.

              So, I think that all the training we had we were pretty

              well prepared.

--- PAGE 70 ---
Cooper   I do , too .      I ' l l tell you- - the launch- -we were

         perfectly normal and right on the money--
Conrad   Yes , we were sitting there waiting to find out what

         they wanted us to do .        I mean we !mew we could

         go on the batteries long enough to get to a

         fairly decent re- entry place and we wer e taking

         bets wi th one another and we were kidding about

         McDivitt.      There must have been real pandamoni um

         at MCC .    They were burning up the lines to every­

         where .    Because ther e r eally wasn ' t anythi ng we

         could do after that but just sort of wait .             We

         re- stowed everything and we were ready to go i nto

         6- 4 if they wanted us to . We wer e all prepared to
         go i nt o 6- 4.     We didn 1 t want t o.
Cooper   We really didn 1 t thi nk we ' d make 18-1.

Conrad   Gor do was the eternal optimist though .          I ' d s ay ,

         " 125 pounds" and he'd say, "Well , it ha sn't really

         fallen anymore . 11     Then it would fal l about another

         20 pounds and I'd say,        "Wel l , that ' s 100 pounds

         now ," and he'd say, "Well , that's really not much

         bel ow what it was before ."
         I think we had a little more confidence than the
         guys on the ground , I really do .          I r emember old

--- PAGE 71 ---
66              1':0 NEIDEbll IAJ. ..
              Steiner saying don't worry about that liq_uid
                                                                        :
              going through that heat exchanger .    He said it

              will go through just fine .   The one thing that I

              thought was that we might have dinged the tank

              with the REP but as long as the q_uantity stayed

              up there we were in pretty good shape , but I wasn't

              sure that we didn't just might have sorre sort of

              a hole back there and were just slowly leaking

              pressure even though the q_uantity--

     Cooper   That was one thing--we always worried E~bout that

              REP with that big diapole hanging out.      If it

              skewed up a little going out what woulcl it wipe

              out going out .   It just happened to be with a lot

              of that OAMS--fuel cell lines and all 'Ghat type
              stuff back there and that was one thing that

              always kind of concerned us about ejecting the REP

              now and then.
              So that was one thing we kept running )ver and

              wondering what i t had wiped out .

     Conrad   Yes.    That was the only thing that kept bothering

              me , but it held to 60 though and that was pretty

              good.
     Cooper   Okay.    Let 's see boresight on REJ?,nodal crossing.
              We didn't get the nodal cropsing.      I · sure wish we

                toNFll)Et~t1'1L

--- PAGE 72 ---
COMflDEN I IA[ »

           could have hung on long enough to find out where

           i t crossed us behind there .

FpSD Rep   Let's back up just a minute on your lock on .

Cooper     Okay .   Boy, it just clung right on to it and zap.

           We got the lock on and the darn range and range

           rate came right on there .      It was moving right

           out at about 5 1/ 4 feet per second just throttling

           right down the old line .

Conrad     Address 69 was reading just fine.

Cooper     Everything was right on the money.

Conrad     Address 58, 59--

Cooper     The range was moving right on out just like it

           should and we were sitting right there on our 270

           point on the ball tracking right straight out for

           a long ways out .   Then is when the variance came

           in, when it kept going out .      It should have

           started slowing down on range rate .      But , it

           seemed like it was slowing down awfully slow .        It
           seems like the range rate kept on for quite a ways .

Conrad     You know I had a 58 ,of -63. 8, and a 59 of a 13~8

           at .89 miles and we should have never gotten that

           far away from i t ever--in the beginning.

Cooper     See with it moving out at the R that we had, all
           the figures we had ever run on it--we had our own

--- PAGE 73 ---
68


              little calculations right here--finally we were

              off our graph up there, weren't we?

     Conrad   Yes .      Well , you ' ve got to realize that the graph ' s
                                                                             =
              based on out of plane and this was the hypotenuse
              to the thing, but even so--

     Cooper   But s t i ll you 've got to--

     Conrad   It still went away more than it should have .

     Cooper   Because you cosine angles were fairly 13mall in

              t here .

     Conrad   It still went away more than it should have.

     Cooper   I don't quite understand it.

     Conrad   We 'll know what the platform--I presume they can

              t ell how well we had the platform al igned .
     Cooper   But there again, there 's the f irst little horse

              shoe nail that throws the glitch in things.           When

              that darn s canner s crewed up right at the most

              crucial time .       It probably had been screwing up

              all along , we just hadn 't really caught it .        It

              really threw the glitch in right therEi at a point

              when it really shouldn't have.         We ma~, have lucked

              out still , and gotten . it out right on the money

              and it may not have been the problem.          I don't

              know, but anyway with the best we had to work with
              we got it out the best we could and it looked like

--- PAGE 74 ---
•

           it went out in good fashion .        I think we s till

           would have been all right if we had gone ahead

           and done the rendezvous with no problem even if
           we had gotten a little out of plane with it we could

           have handled this later on.         But, there again it made

           it difficult for Pete because it got him completely

           off his schedule , too .        It got him late blowing
           the doors .     Well , we s t ill were reasonably well on

           top of it .     Let ' s see .

Conrad     We can skip all this REP s t uff .         You got anything
           else you want to lmow about the radar?

FCSD Rep   It would be best I think to go on through it and

           say what you did and didn ' t do so we can stay on

           this .

Conrad     Yes, well--

FCSD Rep   Use your flight plan.

Conrad     Well, we got as far--let ' s see, it says when on bore- ­
           sight read and record address 58 , 59 , and 69 and

           this was just before 2: 51 when we were supposed

           to have a reading to give back on the ground.

           This is the reading I got:         58 read -63. 8, 59 read
           139 . 8 .   The distance was-- address 69 was .89 miles
           and I got that at the t ime that it was supposed to

--- PAGE 75 ---
70




                 be gotten,

     Cooper      Why don' t you bring the flight plan over here
                                                                         "
                 and let's start down it.         We might as well

                 s kip what he has in the flight plan here

                 because it varies so from there on.
     Conrad     From here on you can for get this flight plan .
     Cooper     That ' s right .

     Conrad     Right here .
     Cooper     Where 's our little book of the fl i ght plan?
     Conrad     I've got i t right here .
     Cooper     Oh , okay .

     Conrad     Okay.     All this time we sweated out getting home

                and that ' s when we wound up-- here is where we

                s t arted on this flight plan, at 1 day a nd 02 hours,

                so that's 12 hour s after lift- off.
     Cooper     We finally got back on A f light plan ani --
     Conrad     Yes , and that ' s the first thing we started to do
                was to power back up .
     FCSD Rep   One day.      That's 24 hours .
     Conrad     No .    That one day remember we-­
     Cooper     We star ted that one day--
     Conrad     We went CEl' to 2400 Zulu and then tha t became day
                1 , 00 hours and lift-off was 1400 Zulu.

                       CO N·rrD Et ◄ ifI,A. L~

--- PAGE 76 ---
Cooper   From lift- off until 2400 hours the day of launch

         was elapsed t ime and s t arting a t tha t t ime we started

         calling it day one and then GM!'.

Conrad   Okay.    So , we went through a l i ttle deal here

         where we started to power up and they let us tum- ­

         we'd been drifting hadn ' t we?

Cooper   Yes .   I ' ll say.

Conrad   We turned up the AC , ACME inverter on and the ACME

         bias power on OAMS attitude on and we went t9 pulse

         and we were supposed to power back down again at

         02 + 27 + 25.   We were supposed to have this H
                                                         2
         purge a t 02 + 45 + 00 . Tha t was the first thing,

         they were just going to let us purge H we
                                                2
         didn 't purge the o:xygen. Everybody was worried

         about that .    Then we were on the flight plan and

         they gave us an update time for our first

         medical pass and we stayed- - ! think we took these

         vision tests , didn ' t we?

Cooper   Yes, we did .

Conrad   We just stayed right on the fli ght plan , had the

         vision tests , and I have a comment in here that at

         01 days 04 hours and 32 minutes we saw our first

         meteor r e- enter .
Cooper   ~an , we saw a lot of those meteorites re- enter

--- PAGE 77 ---
72               €Or<tFlt,fN I i.2u                   •

              below us .    That kind of startles you when you
                                                                                  ::
              realize they are        9ntering below you.        It means

                   ve                  you .

     Conrad   This is when the exp      imenters went out of their

              minds .   They handed us this flight pl8l1 you wouldn ' t

              believe where they had 1, 2, 3,4,5 , 6,7,8,9,10 , 11 ,

              12 , 13,14 , 15 , 16 ,17,18 , 19 , 20,21 22,23, no 22 experiments

              they gave us to do in a row an           they ir.volved

              everything in the spacecraft anti we had gear all

              over .    You wouldn ' t believe it .       I never had so

              much junk--we went wild.         That   '/s when we called
              up and said, "Hey, gang let ' s be a l i t·~le more

              reasonable."

     Cooper   The other problem                 didn't list them

              seque

     Conrad   Yes , that ' s right.

     Cooper   They put them in there and we had to keep skipping

              around on them to get the sequential time on them

              and that was a mess .

     Conrad   Now, what we did is we copied down in this book

              and then we'd write it down at the proper time so

               that we had it sequentially in the flight plan.

     Cooper   It worked out very well .


                         NFIDE

--- PAGE 78 ---
•                    73



Conrad     You , don 't want to get into which experiments we

           got done and which ones we didn't or do you?

           Do you want to go through it that detailed?

FCSD Rep   Well, there's an experiment section in there .

Cooper     Well , let's cover all the experiments in the

           experiment section .   We might just comment right

           now how that I think our book arrangement worked

           out extremely satisfactory and I don't know how

           we'd have ever kept up with where we were if

           we hadn't had these books to follow .     We just

           passed these books back and forth and we managed

           to keep them stowed pretty neatly.      I knew r ight

           where they were .   Pete· kept them stowed beside

           his left leg in the seat.     They slid right do~m

           the seat.

Conrad     Right here and Gordo kept them on his right and if

           he had them and I wanted one --

Cooper     If he was asleep I would just reach over and slide

           them out and vice-versa.     And then our Volkswagon

           pouches held the l i ttle ones real fine .    These

           books were used a jilli on man- hour s-- just back

           and for th .   They really worked out well.   They're

           easy to write in and we tried to keep meticulous
           logs on everything and I think we did reasonably

                          ftBENTIAt

--- PAGE 79 ---
L     ,
           well .

Conrad     Okay, now we also wrote in these little screwy

           ditties .     This is where we kept the things if

           they wanted us to power-up something or pull

           one of their nutty tests that they dreareed up

           in the middle of the night .      We ' d write them down

           just in order in which they came.

Cooper     Do we just want to go right on down thrcugh here?

FCSD Rep   Okay.     Why don ' t we go right on down anc. list what

           we did and then when we get in the experiment section

           we can go into detail .

Cooper     Okay.     Where did we leave off here now.       At--okay ,

           one day 4 hours and 40 minutes .        Let' s flee we

           didn't do this--
Conrad     No , we didn't do the cryogenic test .       Tnt's right.
Cooper     Then at 1 day 5 hours we did the S- 8 , I)..13, Connnand Pilot.
Conrad     That's another thing.      They had you doing these

           things while one g.:;.y was asleep' and one guy was

           awake .     You wake up and have a briefing period            it's

           just a bunch of baloney.      We were both awake

           and when we took a test why we took it together

           and got it out of the way.
Cooper     l,'e ate together and slept together and took the
           •.•. together. We'd been completely st~rtled

--- PAGE 80 ---
75


         wi th terrible pulse rates when we ' d hear somebody

         calling from down in that deep barrel , Gemini 5,
         Gemini 5, Gemini 5.       Ha ,ha.

         Lights on all over the place trying to find the

         radio switch.   Ha- ha.     Out of a deep sleep .

Cooper   Okay.   I think maybe if we'd just go down through

         here and hit these things that particularly--

Conrad   Tell me where we are in time and then I'll look

         in here to see what notes there are in here .

Cooper   Well , and then we left these pretty well as we went

         through the flight plan here and then we left

         those pretty well--

Conrad   Well , these are all the next day      s o--

Cooper   These things are all ready listed in there--I think

         were just mainly the things we wrote in here .

Conrad   These S-6 passes

Cooper   S-6 weather pass at 1 day 6 hours and 10 minutes .

         1 day 7 hours 48 minutes 26 seconds .          Sequence
         G8, we did that .   That was the hurricane too wasn' t

         i t? And then we had another sequence on that --

         the next trip around at 9 hours 22 minutes 49 seconds .

         We looked at it again.        Then at 9 hours 27 minutes

         33 seconds we had a sequence 208 and that was--
Conrad   Man, we've got logs for the logs.

--- PAGE 81 ---
76             "C O ► li 1DENJl4,L


     Cooper   I don ' t know but what we might be better                ::

              on this just to go through our individual

              specialty logs and log where occured at what

              time , because that's the more accurate

              one of all--because this was kind of our running

              logs of what was going on--to warn us when things

              were coming up ahead.    As far as going back into

              this and doing the whole thing that isn 1 t as accurate

              as going into-- there are so many specia:.ty

              areas in here .   We have those logged real

              accurately according to time.    I think :.t

              might be better to go through and get a:.1
              those and build a flight plan out of that

              r ather than go through the   flight

              plan because the flight plan had to

              be just completely- -we didn't sleep

              when we were supposed to and we didn't

              eat when we were supposed to and-- .

     Conrad   Well, let's go on through this thing, and now as far

              as the experiments go those guys have a complete

              log of what they sent up to us and that should

              jive with the complete log that we have of what

              we received and from that and what we logged and what

--- PAGE 82 ---
77


           we did we can tell you at any point in time whether

           we got a certain experiment done or not.      If they

           want to know if we got something done or not and

           if there's a reason why we didn ' t do it why we

           usually had that recorded somewhere.      Either

           in here or in the flight plan.

           Why don 1 t we go through this one?

Cooper     Okay.

Conrad     When we get to a point of the experiment or s ome­

           thing we can check in here .

Cooper     We did the UHF test .

FCSD Rep   Why don't you read off those days .

Cooper     Okay.     One day and 8 hours--let 1 s see 1 day 10 hours

           49 minutes . Sequence 03 UHF test 3.
Conrad     Right .

Cooper     We did that .

Conrad     We had--were supposed to do an Apollo a t 01 12 36

           17 ,    Now I don't think we got that one.

Cooper     I think that was sequence 208 .     Why don't you check

           that one real quick--yes.

           I think that was the one we couldn ' t get because-­

Cooper     We had weather over that one .

Conrad     Covered by clouds .
Cooper     Okay, we had UHF test number 3 at 10 hours 49 minutes .

--- PAGE 83 ---
78


     FCSD Rep   One day?
                                                                           ::
     Cooper     We've al l ready mentioned that one .    We did get

                that one.   We have that one written up here actually

                i t occurred around down here.     Flight
                plan up- date .   Yes, we had lots of those.

     Conrad     Now, here was the D-4, D-7,421 .

     Cooper     D- 4, D- 7 421 occuring at 1 day 12 hours and 7

                minutes .

     Conrad     I ' ll tell you whether we got it done or not .      No.

     Cooper     We didn ' t do that one .

     Conrad     I don't know why we didn't do it .      We were in

                drifting fl±ght by then, I guess .

     Cooper     Then we have a note right here.      The D- 6 number

                19 scrubbed for the State side pass .       They

                scrubbed that one .    There was a weather problem

                on that one .

     Conrad     Yes.

     Cooper     Yes .

     Conrad     Okay now this is an interesti ng thing at 01 days

                14 hours , completely different than GT 4, we

                started getting these RCS hea ter lights.      Those

                guys--the only time they got an RCS heater                 :

                light was something like day 3.      Ed said. it was
                in ring A and he turned on the heater a.r.d he got

--- PAGE 84 ---
79


             the light 2 or 3 times and he turned the heater

             off then it ca.me on again.   You lmow , for an

             hour's per iod of time and he nBver had the lights

             again.   Now, this is another reason why I suspect

             this OAMS system-- one of the biggest mistakes

             ever made--whoever recommended it on the ground

             to power down that OAMS heater to save electrical
             ener gy foul ed our whole system because we started

             at this point time having RCS heater lights .     I

             checked for 8 days throughout the flight and I

             could always get an RCS heater light.    If I
             turned off that heater switch I 1 d·have an RCS light

             come on every once in a while and so we left those

             RCS heaters on all the time.

    Cooper   From one day and 14 hours the RCS heater were on

             the whole flight.

    Conrad   You lmow they're auto .   And the only heat when
             necessary, but every time we turned the heater

             off we wouldn't run for an hour or two that the

             light didn ' t come back on again and it would

             either be on ring A or ring B.

    Cooper   And the temperature that we'd get on the gage
             when those lights would come back on was something
             in the order of about 60 degrees wasn ' t it?




I

--- PAGE 85 ---
80                                          L,

              55 degrees .
     Conrad   Yes .

     Cooper   They ran when the heater was on--it kept them           ::

              between 60 and 80 .     One time ring B got up to

              80 degrees.    But it ran between 60 and 80

              degrees, that those heaters kept the RCS., A and B.

              But , any time if you turned tha t heater off it

              wasn ' t any time at all until the light cl3.me back

              on again so we just turned them on and l ,~ft them

              on the whole flight .

              And that RCS couldn't have worked better .         It

              was the most beautiful system you ever s~w.

     Conrad   Boy , i t sure did .   Now , here of course--

     Cooper   As you say, in contrast to what we had before .

     Conrad   Here 's another thing when we got into these high

              tumbling rates that really kept the spacecraft

              cold.

     Cooper   Shew!   The windows even froze over.
     Conrad   Yes , i t was darn cold .

     Cooper   We were down to minimum flow .     We had beth suit

              flows off--completely off.      We had the fui t

              coolant completely down to the next to Jast notch

              and we left i t cracked as we were afraic. we would
              completely freeze up the whole coolant if we shut

--- PAGE 86 ---
81- - - --


         it completely off and later they told us that we

         could go a.head and shut it completely off.       And

         we were sitting in there just shivering and shaking

         and I was a lot colder than Pete.       He was cold and

         I was really cold.      I was really thinking seriously

         about--if we couldn ' t get that thing warmed up I

         was going to take my suit off and I did for a

         while in fact ~ake my inlet and exhaust hoses off .

Conrad   Yes, that was his answer to the problem.        When he

         got too cold, just disconnect.
Conrad   Just let it blow i nto the cabin.

Cooper   But, it was so cold in there that             ·ndows froze

         over and we were sitting there spinnin@.



Conrad   It had a rapid freeze on them.      I didn't see that

         except when we were doing the high tumqling and i t

         got really cold in there .                I
Cooper   You could see the frost bui ld up on the outside all

         over the spacecraft .    Outside up o    the nose

         section around the thrusters             frost all over

         down there .   When you tumb

         have enough time           e sunlight-- when the sun-

                            -- I think to warm up that particular

         section.   When we damped it immediately thereafter

--- PAGE 87 ---
82                        Flf)ENTIA            ..
              the whole thing star ted to warm up .       You could see

              the frost melt outside .      Everything seei:ned t o go up .

              The fuel temperatures would go up , and t'.le whole

              ECS system would warm up, the cabin wouli warm up

              and everything.      We were sitting there--

     Conrad   A slow drift or stabilized fl i ght--

     Cooper   When we wer e s itt ing t her e r eally sp inning up, th:ings

              just got colder and colder and colder .       :IJ"ow by

              spinning up I ' m talking about we got up )nee to

              12 degrees per second.       It wasn ' t any bother to us

              except visuall y .   You just couldn ' t stan i to look

              at i t out the window.      It just gave you 3uch an

              awful looki ng pi cture .    Like you were in an inverted-­

              upside down--wrong side up- -.        So we fin~lly put

              the polar oid filter s up . . . the holes .

     Conrad   We got completely i n the dark ther e .

     Cooper   I didn ' t even want to look at what was ~)ing on .

              It was odd because before you could take a penci l and

              put it out here and it's the best attitu,ie indicator

              you had.    If there ' s any little r ate goi:1g on at all

              the penci l would give it to you .      You ca1 sit and

              hold it r i ght out in front of you and it's just like

              an arti f i cial horizon.   It ' s the most be,mtiful--
              or camera or whatever you        ve out there it will do

                         NFIDENTIAL ~

--- PAGE 88 ---
~rqflDENTIA~

         the same thing.   You put something out in front of

         you and it would just disappear.      Whew!

         It wouldn ' t sit in front of you.    It would move from

         one side to the other of the spacecraft due to the
         rates you would build up .

Conrad   Yes, here's where we got into this business of the

         OAMS Heater- Off and ACME-Off and the C adapter to

         Command and the Scanners-Off and they wanted to up­

         date the computer.      We brought the IGS and the

         computer on and then we powered down again and this

         is--

Cooper   One day 14 hours where this started.

Conrad   Yes , right in here .    That was passing over Carnarvon .

Cooper   And then is where we brought up the second fuel

         cell .   We brought back on--

Conrad   Got the pump back on the line and then we got ready

         for our first big day over the States.

Cooper   Yes, that's a great da;y .

Conrad   Boy, we were busy though .     We learned a lot .

Cooper   I tell you though , those passes over the states

         were really good.

Conrad   The third day was our best day as far as being

         organized.    They gave us about the proper amount
         of experiments and we were well organized.--

--- PAGE 89 ---
84


     Cooper   Yes, we had a great day .    Tha t third da~r was a goody .

              Man we had everythi ng right on the button.       We

              got good shots of it and everything just worked

              ou t right on the money.    Okay, let ' s se,3.   This is

              15 hours 40 minutes, that's still with everything

              powered up .

     Conrad   Then we had this D-1 and D-4 and we got those .        Those

              were photographs .    We got the photographs of the moon
              and the IR measurements of the moon and with the IR

              film and I think they're probably pretty good.         Of

              course the Air Force has tha t film .

     Cooper   We found that the I R and the retical and the radar

              and everything were pretty well right on the money.

              Everything seemed to be boresighted pretty well, and

              Pete could look thr ough his questar lense at a s t ar

              and be boresighted right in the mi ddl e of the darn

              camera.   I'd have it right in the middle of the ret ­

              icle.

     Conrad   Yes , I ' ve got to eat crow on that .   I Fas the @J.Y

              that was complaining about did they reE,lly have this

              stuff boresighted.     Everything was extremely well

              boresighted .                                                  :

     Cooper   Ye s, it sure was .   Can ' t complain about i t at all.



                                              •

--- PAGE 90 ---
85


      Conrad   No, it worked very well .

      Cooper   Let ' s see we had an observation of the storm and some

...            pictures there at 17 hours and 12 minutes still on

               day 1.     Oh, we brought the radar to stand-by to

               warm things up there at 17 hours-- 16 hours

      Conrad   Radar temperature went down to 19 degrees.
      Cooper   16 hours and 50 minutes-~it wa s the secondary

               coolant loop that got so cold.      They wanted us to

               bring on some added heat source so we brought the

               radar on to stand-by for quite a period of time

               to warm things up , and let ' s see--

      Conrad   They wanted to warm the radar up , too .     It got too col d .

      Cooper   Yes , that ' s right.   What did we do in here .

      Conrad   That was S- 8, D- 13,
      Cooper   That was S-8, D- 13, and that didn't work out very well.
               'That was too early.     That was the one that was so

               early in the morning.

      Conrad   It seems to me that's the first time we looked at

               it and we saw the smoke.

      Cooper   Oh yes .

      Cooper   Now , let's see was it the first one or the second

               that I saw and you didn 1 t see.

      Conrad   I don't know.     I never saw it.

--- PAGE 91 ---
86                 G@t lfill.Et ff1,1'1_ 1

     FCSD Rep   S- 8 , D- 13 ,    One day and 18 hours .

     Cooper     I saw it .       That ' s right .    We couldn ' t se e it at

                all unti l we were almost over i t and then I found

                the target .

     Conrad     We could see the smoke and we were looking at the

                smoke and looking at the smoke--

     Cooper     The sun angle wa s very low and it was very bad

                but just after we got right on top of i t and going

                on over I located the targets and was trying to

                point them out to Pete .            At least I sor-; of got

                a pattern on the ground and I think tha·; ' s why

                I could find them.          I recognized the pa·;tern on the
                general area of the ground that I could find .                 They

                were in between two r ivers and a bi g r e i mud hill.

                Okay, what did we get on that?             That wa:3 next and

                I got on that one .         Let's see that was three and
                four and 18 hour s and one day 20 hours 4 minutes

                43 seconds .       We got that .     And then S- 8 , D- 13 ,
     Conrad     The same one .
     Cooper     The same one we were discussing there.              Yes .
                                                                                      ;




                   COt ◄f ll'Et ◄ tf lsA,b ◄

--- PAGE 92 ---
87


Cooper   Okay , we moved to Med Data to Hawaii at 19 hours

         and 55 minutes which we did.          I got there at 7 i n

         the Caribbean at 20 hours and did the MSC- 1 at 21

         hours 52 minutes to 22 hours and 44 minutes.

Conrad   Then we stayed on the flight plan there and at

         Hawaii had a critical tape dump at 1 day 23 hours .

         I congratulated Gordo for exceeding his original

         flight time at 2 days          hours .

Cooper   Just barely started .

Conrad   Gee .     Ob!   Here's that "dinged by a micrometeorite . "

         I haven ' t told anyone about this because I ' m not

         really sure that was what happened, because it

         happened twice and it happened right in the same
         place .     It might have been metal cooling, but right

         over my head something dinged the hatch .         Just

         bigger than heck - dinged.       You know , just like

         someone shot a B- B off of it .

Cooper   Yes, I could hear .      That's just exactly what it

         sounded like .

Conrad   I was convinced that we had gotten dinged by a
         micrometeorite .      So I put it on the voice tape and

         wrote it down here .      Then a couple of hours later

         we got dinged just as loud just about in the same



                                           •

--- PAGE 93 ---
88              ac: 0 1◄ F 1 D E NJ J,A L ~

              place again, so that made me think , well, you know
                                                                          :
              they aren't going to strike the same place twice

              so maybe it wasn't a micrometeorite after all.          I   ::

              really don ' t know what it was, but I think it's

              worth a look at the hatch.      It could have just been

              that metal was cooling down or expandin~· or some­

              thing, you know

     Cooper   They were right directly overhead on thE! right

              hatch .

     Conrad   Yes.      It really sounded like someone fired a pellet

              or a B- B, or a . 22 off of a piece of me·;al .

     Cooper   We decided we wouldn't put this out ove:c the radio

              or we would get everybody all shattered .      Okay,

              well essentially that day 2 - that whole page from

              2 hours to 4 hours - went right on flight plan

              schedule .     We did the Vision Test there and we

              called down the scores from both that one and the

              day before .

     Conrad   Now we were on this split purge cycle .

     Cooper   Yes , now here is where they started making a
              mistake.     Somebody didn 't realize that I could not

              purge the fuel cells from my side.      I can ' t get

              to those switches, and I had to wake Pete up


                €O t ◄ FI 0 Er ◄ T I A k-'

--- PAGE 94 ---
every time he was supposed to be asleep when the

         fuel cells were purged .    Well, I could get to them ,

         but I had to crawl right over in his lap to do it,

         so he was awake then .     After that I learned to wake

         him up early and let him get awake before he

         purged them.

Conrad   Scared the heck out of that guy at Carnarvon , too ,

         I ' ll bet you -- We were going to purge the fuel

         cells for the first time and I was sound asleep.

         Gordo said, ''Wake up , wake up, we ' ve got to purge

         the fuel cells!"   I reached over there and turned

         on everything and all the Delta- Plights came on .

Cooper   He hadn ' t put the crossover --

Conrad   The crossover valve on.      I said , "The Delta- P
         lights are on!"    The guy at Carnarvon said, "Stop

         purging!   Stop purging!"     He must have thought the

         cells were going to go right then and there so

Cooper   And then Pete woke up .

Conrad   Then finally I woke up and got to thinking about
         what was going on there and found out that I'd

         fouled up, slightly.

Cooper   All right, let 's see.     We deleted on day 2 , 6 hours,

         and 35 minutes, we deleted that Philippines S-7 and they

--- PAGE 95 ---
90



              were --

     Cooper   I wonder what the reason was for that .       There was

              some interference with something.        I conldn ' t get

              to that one.     Oh, what the heck was it?     There was

              something else going on they had us doing right

              then .    Oh , somebody was asking me somet:1ing.    They

              were having a big discussion over cryo .       That ' s

              right .   We had a great big 2 days 6 hours - we had

              a big discussion over the net on something on these

              cryos and it occured right at the time when we

              were supposed to get this one on this Jass .

     Cooper   Okay, at 2 days 7 hours and 45 minutes we did MSC-

              1 again, and in fact I think we did all the MSC- l 's

              pretty much on schedul e.       At 2 days 9 hours and

              15 minutes we were supposed to do an Apollo
              Landmark in Africa, and the one they called out for

              us to do in the Flight Plan , there just wasn ' t any

              description of it .    It was very poorly described

              and we couldn't find where and what it was they

              wanted us to get.     They never did call out a

              number on this nor did they have it listed here .
     Conrad   What was the time on that?                                  ...
     Cooper   It was almost 02:09:20 : 00 .

--- PAGE 96 ---
91


Conrad    02: 09 , huh?

Cooper    Yes .
Conr ad   Gosh, that doesn't even show here .      So , I guess

          they never did even call it up from the ground .

          You just saw it in t he Flight Plan .
Cooper    It was in the Flight Plan - -
Conrad    But they riever called it out .
Cooper    They n ever called it out .

Conrad    I haven ' t got it written down , either .
Cooper    Okay, on through the second day we did another UHF

          Test , another Medical Data, on 2 days 12 hours and

          50 minutes.
Conr ad   That ' s when we first powered the platform back up.
          We were still building up.
Cooper    Two days and 13 hours, we powered the platform back

          up and we did a UHF No . 1 , we did a D- 1 sequence 2,
          we did a D- 1 sequence 3, we did a D-6 sequence 12 ;

          and these are all s t ateside passes .   That was a

          busy time ! We did a D- 6 at day 2 , 14 hours .    We

          did a D- 4/D-7 at 14 : 35 .
Conrad    What ' s this , now?   I have the platform power up , a

          D- 4 , a UHF 2
Cooper    Right .

--- PAGE 97 ---
92


     Conrad   - - an S- 6 at 15 : 45 --
     Cooper   You ' re ahead of where I was .

     Conrad   Oh, I ' m sorry.      Okay, we'll back up.     D- 6 at 13 :41--46 .   r


              We got Tampico instead of Monterey beca-i;.se it was

              clouded in .       Then we did the UHF No. 1, and we got

              this S- 5/S- 6 during our African pass- dicn ' t we?

              And we got the D- 4/D-7 over Kano .       Wait a minute,

              I ' m not sure we got that one.       Let me look in the

              log here.      4 : 20, no clouds over Kano , so we didn't

              get it.     It was supposed to be cl oudy O'rer Kano .
     Cooper   That ' s right .    There were supposed to b1? clouds over

              Kano.     It was supposed to be clouds we '~ere getting

              pi ctures of, and there weren't any clouis .
     Conrad   Yes , it was clear.      Then we had an S- 1 , which we

              did not do .    We did the S- 1 later.       That's when we

              went to platform power up and the computer on, and

              then we started a D- 6 at 15 : 16 .     After D- 6 at

              15 : 16 was a number 20 , which, if I'm net mistaken ,
              was supposed to be Waco ; and we got DaJlas instead

              because Waco was cloudy then .        Yes , it was supposed

              to be James Connally and we took Dallaf1 instead,
              because Waco was clobbered.
     Cooper   What ' s this I have here?     That ' s your note there.

--- PAGE 98 ---
·GONftf1                                                  93


         Conrad   21 . 1 feet per second Delta P .

         Cooper   Oh, that was our pre- burn stuff.          At 2 days

.,,...            17 hours 34 minutes and 31 seconds we had a

                  maneuver load .

         Conrad   Well , I have the whole thing here .        We powered

                  up the platform on day 2 at 15:50 with the plat­

                  form caged BEF, and at 16 : 15 we alined BEF with the

                  rate gyros on.           At 16:45:00 the computer went on

                  and we addressed 25 90201 , and apogee adjust maneuver

                  was a t 16 : 50 : 17 .    We translated forward to zero the

                  IVI, so it was actually a retro burn .          I mean we

                  were BEF.

         Cooper   We were using the aft-firing thrusters.

         Conrad   Yes.    We had a D-6 on the ship , and we didn't see

                  it, at 2 days 16 hours 56 minutes and 49 seconds .

                  We didn't see the ship.           Then at 17:20 the second
                  day we alined the platform SEF and we sat the

                  computer up to address 25 00158 .         We made an SEF

                  burn, which was a phase adjust maneuver, at 17 :

                  34:58 .    Now , that one we did in the Platform Mode

                  and it didn't burn for schmaltz.

         Cooper   The platform didn ' t hold it .        It allowed us to get

                  a little bit of left-right and up- down .

--- PAGE 99 ---
Conrad   I don't bel ieve that Platform Mode was holding the

         t olerances it was supposed to.       It was drifting a

         full degree, and it was supposed to hold better

         than t ha t .

Cooper   I t is supposed to hol d plus or minus half a degree .

Conrad   By drifting off in yaw a degree , it burned the whole

         time 1 degree off in yaw in the same direction .

         You see, that accounted for the sort of l arge out­

         of-pl ane number; it was like 0.8 foot ier second

         that we got in to the out of pl ane.        Okay, then we

         had a D-4/D- 7 at 17: 42:00, a 410 Band a 407 over

         Carnarvon; and it was not done .

Cooper   Tha t 's right; we didn ' t have a reticl e .

Conrad   Because the reticle pooped out .       We thought the

         reticl e had burned out .     It wasn ' t unti l l a ter on

         after we were going to fix the reticle by putting

         t he auxiliary light in there that Gordo found that
         t here was a short in the cord when the cord was
         stretched , and that t he short wasn ' t i n the cord

         when the cord wasn ' t stretched , and that the sight

         was okay.       That reminds me of another thing.

         Right af ter we got airborne I went to use the

         little auxil iary l ight down here .      It was in the

--- PAGE 100 ---
95


         clip so hard that when I pulled it out , I pulled

         it completely apart.    I shattered it .    I broke out
         my lens .   Glass floating around and everything.

         Where did we stow that?     I forgot .   I gave it to

         you and you stowed i t --
Cooper   I put it in the garbage bag.

Conrad   That ' s right ; it's in the garbage bag, someplace.

         Well , they have gone through a ll that.

Cooper   Incidentially, that one single-point cord that we

         have in there over on my side , if I had had

         something to cut it with, I should have cut it

         right in two so it wouldn 't be used again .     It's

         no good .   It works fine as long as you don ' t put

         any tension on it. When you s t ring it up to put

         it in the reticle, it shorts out .

Conrad   Then we went through another maneuver preparation

         at 17:50: 00 on the second day.    We alined the

         platform SEF and we sat up an out-of-plane
         maneuver and address 27 00150 , 15 feet per second

         out of plane burn, and 90 degrees yaw left .     At
         02 days 18 hours 06 minutes 50 seconds we made

         that out-of-plane burn .

Cooper   We did that in Rate Command and right on the money.

--- PAGE 101 ---
Conrad   Yes, we did that in Rate Command right on the money.

         Then we had an S- 8/D-13 and we documented those

         t hings ; Gordo saw part of it and I did.r. 1 t .   We

         never did really get a good score .       ThE·n at 18 : 50

         again we alined the platform SEF and seit the

         computer up to 25 00164 and burned thiE1 reverse

         coelliptic maneuver at 19 : 04:18 , and that was a

         good burn too.    MCC had put in their Agena computer

         an Agena ephemeris, and they ran a rendezvous
         solution on a fake Agena.      They had us make the

         actual burns, and then they computed hJw close we

         would have wound up.     I was told over the radio

         that we got within 0 .2 mile of altitude and 0 . 3

         mile horizontal distance from where we should have

         actually been.    That was well within the tolerances ,

         so they were apparently fairly pleased with the

         burns .   Then we had S-7 at 2 days 21 tours 33
         minutes 02 seconds , and Gordo shot moet of those.
         They always happened on your wat ch.
Cooper   Yes.
Cooper   Then we did 2 days 21 hours and 50 minutes .        We had
                                                                      ,,
         Apollo Landmark south                                        -·
Conrad   Th.at' s when I woke up and you had tha·~ Lake . . . I

--- PAGE 102 ---
I

--- PAGE 103 ---


--- PAGE 104 ---
99


         got the S- 7 again, or you got it , at 3 days 06

         hours and 32 minutes.     We del eted an S- 7 at 3
         days 05 hours for some reason .     I just have

         "delete" in here .

Cooper   What was that?    An S- 7?
Conrad   Yes.

Cooper   Yes .   I don ' t know ; they just told us to delete

         that one at 3 days 05 hours .     Let ' s see ; we

         deleted a Cabin Lighting Survey because Pete was

         asleep.    That was one time when you were asleep

         and I didn ' t want to disturb you .    You hadn ' t had

         any sleep in awhile .

Conrad   You have the note down here that at 3 days 6 hours

         and 33 minutes you found the OAMS Control Propellant

         circuit breaker open and OAMS Control Regulator No .

         1 circuit breaker open ; and you don't know when
         they were opened, and I don ' t know when they
         opened, but we know what did it .      We had been

         parking the water gun up there like you are

         supposed to be able to do and then pulling i t off .
         You tend to pull down thi s way , which would cock

         the gun barrel up into the circuit breaker panel ;

         and I think I probably knocked them off , but when

--- PAGE 105 ---
100
                                                 •
               I ' m not sure .   So , from that point in time on we

               never used the hook-up that you can hock it up on

               the --                                                    -.
      Cooper   We al so found that little-hook up was i •eeling gray

               paint off of those bars and i t was floe.ting all over

               the cabin,

      Conrad   That ' s right .   It kept knocking the gre.y paint off

               the guards and i t kept floating around the cabin .

               So from then on we always put the water· gun in the

               gun holster down there where it belongs .     As a

               matter of fact I think it was easier tc get it in

               and out of the plastic thing that holds it on the

               circuit breaker guards - holds it on tt ere so

               tightly that it is a big swivet everytime you pull

               it off.

      Cooper   Okay.     At day 3, 6 hours 32 minutes 46 seconds we

               did an S- 7 Experiment that aircraft surpor t on it .
               This was over the Philippines.

      Conrad   We got four pictures .

      Cooper   Right .

      Conrad   We did an MSC-1 at 07 : 40.    We had a medical data
               pass in there at 0~: 53,

      Cooper   Right ,

--- PAGE 106 ---
CONFIDENT~                                         101



Conrad   Then I have Pla t form to ORB Rate , Prelaunch , and

         horizon scan for some r eason .    ~uestar 01 , 90

         degrees left .

Cooper   We alined SEF at 13 : 10.

Conrad   Oh, that was these platform tests 1 and 2 that they

         wanted us to do .

Cooper   That 's right.    We were getting ready for another

         stateside pass, too .    We installed the photometer,

         we did an S- 8/D-13 pass at day 3, 13 hours 32

         minutes at Laredo .

Conrad   Oh , let me make a comment right now on S- 8/D- 13 .

         We were supposed to make a measurement , a window

         survey, of the window before day one and the last day.

         Okay, the window scan was done on 1 day 18 hours

         26 minutes 00 seconds.      That was the first window

         scan .     A second window scan was never done because

         the last 3 days of the flight we were in drifting
         flight .     This required a 30- degree sun angle on the

         window, and we never did have a control system

         back until we were on the RCS sys tem.     We weren ' t

         about to do any experiments on RCS fuel .       That was

         right before retro .     The second window scan, the

         one at the end of the flight , wasn ' t done.     But

--- PAGE 107 ---
102



               I will make the comment that I don't think the

               window changed, just from my looking at it .

      Cooper   No , I don ' t think it did, either, I think it was

               just as bad at first , as it was at l ant.

      Conrad   That's right.

      Cooper   And it was pretty bad .

      Conrad   So, I don I t think they lost anything ·;here on that

               data.   We just couldn't ge t that one.

      Cooper   Okay.   Let's see.   We had a medical pgss at day 3,

               13 hours 50 minutes - 13 hours 47 minutes, actually.
               Alined the platform

      Conrad   We went through a really big day .   This was day

               3 and this was the day we were really organized .
               The experimenters sent us up about the right

               number of experiments.    They gave us enough time

               between experiments , and they planned them well

               enough so that we didn't have any troubl e changing
               the gear around or anything, and we had a big day
               that day.

      Cooper   This was a great day .

      Conrad   We had enough time to do it all and we felt good

               about it.   We felt that it was the best day we

               flew.

--- PAGE 108 ---
103



Cooper   Let ' s see .    Day 3, 14 hours and 18 minutes , we did

         that Zodiacal Light .

Conrad   That ' s right.     Gordo really had it on there .      I

         think he got some good dope out of that Zodiacal

         Light .   The pictures should be good .     Gordo held

         it right on the money.

Cooper   Let ' s see; and then we did D- 6 .

Conrad   On the D-6 134, we looked for the ship again but
         didn't see it that day , and that was one thing we

         didn ' t get .

Cooper   I have here now a D-6 .      We did it .   This is El

         Centro.     No , no.

Conrad   021 is Dallas , I think , or something like that .

Cooper   That's right .      And then day 3, 15 hours 8 minutes .

--- PAGE 109 ---
104




      Cooper        We had a full day this day ,     Let ' s see-­

                    at 3 hours-- day 3 , 15 hours , ]3 minutes
                                                                     ,:,
                    we had D- 6 134,
      Conrad        When was this?
      Cooper        3:05:13:51
      Conrad        Yes,      That was a 134--that was the ship

                    and we didn't see it .
      Cooper        Yes--that was the weather.
      Conrad        Yes--I have "no joy for sunlight here,"

                    OK then we had a D- 4 at 15 : 59 ,
      Cooper        Right
      Conrad        409 and 410b and we got them both done .
      Cooper        We got both of those.
      Conrad        We had a platform aline at 16 ::.5 :00.
      Cooper        And a medical pass - right - pl atform
                    aline .
      Conrad        What was that--the computer waE: off by
                    240 miles?
      FCSD rep      Yes .     Their computations were calling

                    for 240 short based on what waE put into
                    it .
      Conrad        That ' s right--that 1 s just what happened

                    and we were trying to fly short .


                 CQNEJD;l»TI~               •

--- PAGE 110 ---
@NflDi~TIAL                •                 105



FCSD Rep      Yes .

Conrad        Well, do you feel better?

Cooper        No --
Cooper        At 16 hours and 24 minutes we had a

              medical pass .    At 16 hours and 15 minutes

              we alined SEF, powered up the radar,
              rate gyros, etc .    At 16 hours and 37

              minutes we had a D- 4 pass 423a, .

Conrad        That was the first missile .

Cooper        And we saw it .

Conrad        Saw it come up thru the clouds--or right

              at the edge of the clouds.

FCSD rep .    Which one was this--out of here-­

Conrad        No--we didn't get any missiles out of

              here.   It was out of Vandenburg.    It

              was the Minuteman out of Vandenburg.

FCSD rep.     You got it as soon as you came out of

              the clouds?
Cooper        Yes.

Conrad        Yeah- -just as plain as day.
Cooper        Right on it .     Should have gotten some

              good readings on that .    We powered up

              the computer then at day 3 , 16 hours

--- PAGE 111 ---
106



                  a.nd 45 minutes a.nd radar was on a.nd

                  radar off, on--we had that radar test

                  right in there that they wanted to do.
      Conrad      Did we get those pictures of Venus and

                  Fomalhaut.     This platform 1 and 2
                  business?

      Cooper      I thought we did.
      Conrad      I didn ' t have a done log on that and

                  I don't think I wrote that down anywhere

                  whether we--
      Cooper      I don't remember whether we ever got

                  Venus or not.     OK, let ' s see---the tape
                  recorder was apparently still working

                  there because you changed the tape there.

                  That day at 1 7 hours-- yeah--he:r:e we go.
      Conrad      Wait a minute--here, I got it down here.

                  Platform test 1, magazine 9, picture 23,
                  l/30th of a second- no - somet::iing
                  Questar.
      Cooper     Didn't get Venus--
      Conrad     Platform test 02 , magazine 9, picture 22,
                 I/30th of a second-- oh, no fili;er--I 1 m

                  sorry.     Fomalhaut--we got Foma:Lhaut but


               CO~FIDENTIAL.-

--- PAGE 112 ---
107



::
              we didn ' t get Venus .   We never found

              it .    That' s right.

     Cooper   That ' s right.   We never even found

              Venus on that night side.      Platform

              test 2--

     Conrad   And I got a remark here to find out
              that on day 6 at 01 hours, 02 minutes

              and 15 seconds where in the heck were

              we because there were great fires on the

              ground?

     Cooper   Yeah.

     Conrad   OK--so I did write it down--all right-­

              SA- D-13, day 3, 18 :16 :14--and I had

              some comments about that here some place .

              16:14 - We scored a 4 and a 1--and the

              4 was in the upper--the 1 was in the

              upper left hand box and the 4 was in

              the second box in the second row.

     Cooper   Right.     OK about this period of time-­

              let ' s see we had an S- 7--0h, first before
              this--then we had run some more tests

              on our primary scanner and found out

              that it was completely inoperative and--

--- PAGE 113 ---
108



      Conrad   Yeah.
      Cooper   Just kept getting worse, worse , worse--

               and so--Pete has a note here--tell Houston

               about primary scanner--which we did

               shortly thereafter at 3 hours, 18 minutes ,

               3 days, 18 hours and 16 minutes we did

               an S- 7 , and then at 3 days , 18 hours

               and 25 minutes we purged, powe:('ed down ,

               computer off, platform off, re·;icle off,
               rate gyros off, etc. , etc.
      Conrad   Yeah.     Then you have a--you 1 ve got an

               S- 7 done at 03:21:20 : 08.
      Cooper   Right ,
      Conrad   You had an Apollo landmark at 03:21:38 :02

               a 213 and I think that--we got Lake
               De Poo Poo or whatever it was , when we
               got t hat done.
      Cooper   We got that one.
      Conrad   There was a D- 4 D- 7 at 03:22: 48 :17 a
               425a--I don ' t know what that was but-­
      Cooper   Well , we also got in addition just before

               that at day 3, 22 hours and 15 minutes

               we got an S- 6 magazine 4; exposure 12 ,

--- PAGE 114 ---
109



              cyclone off Japan which has been added
C


              into there.    And then you start on that

              HF test number 1 starting at 22 hours ,

              55 minutes .
    Conrad    Oh, yeah, 425a was Hawaii , Maui.
    Cooper    Oh, yeah , you got that one.
    Conrad    Maunakea was the volcano--it ' s not
              active--but anyhow--
    Cooper    Wait a minute--oh--213 is what--
    Conrad    Huh?    That's Apollo landmark--this was

              the D- 4 D- 7--let 1 s see the Apollo land­

              marks--let me look there and see if we
              got 213 on it .
    Cooper    All right , then that was at 22 :48 - the

              D-4 D- 7 was at 3 days , 22 hours , 48 min­

              utes , and 17 seconds was the 425a--and
              416 .
    Conrad    You got the Apollo landmark at 03 :21 : 38 :

              02: 213 , magazine 4 , frame 10 , 1 - 2

              pictures you took.
    Coop:er   Yes .
    Conrad    Camera 11.
    Cooper    Then--day 4 start at day 4 , 00 hours ,

--- PAGE 115 ---
110



               25 minutes, cabin lighting.      19 minutes

               was the medical data, at 40 let•s see--

               40 minutes there was the D- 2 series 1, 4,

               5--sequence 1, 4, 5.

      Cooper   Mode 414 I have here--What was that?

      Conrad   145 was a military, U.S.
      Cooper   Yeah.     What I s this Mode 414--

      Conrad   That was if we saw it we were ·;o be in

               Mode 414 on the IR.

      Cooper   Oh, OK.      Then we had a D- 6, mode 01 at

               44:10, day 4, 44 minutes and 10 seconds .

      Conrad   On day 4?
      Cooper   Yes.

      Conrad   I don I t have anything down hero for that.
      Cooper   04:00
      Conrad   Mode Ol--that 1 s--I think. that 1 s . -~ I

               may have the numbers wrong.
      Cooper   OK--at day 4, two hours, 20 minutes -
               vision tests, both of us.

      Conrad   Had that HF test in there someplace.
      Cooper   Yeah, I've already called that out.

               Medical data pass on me over CSQ at

               03: 11:00.     We had an S-7, day 4, 03 hours ,


                'AElEN:J:

--- PAGE 116 ---
111



             20 minutes and 25 seconds , we got an
C

             S- 7, sequence 01 and let's see--and thru
             this period was where we both completely
             ran out of steam-- here on--we were trying

             to get you to sleep so I deleted all of
             these tests right in thru here to let
             Pete sleep .       On day 4, starting at 3
             hours and 45 minutes on--
    Conrad   Deleted the HF tests here--
    Cooper   Kept adding these tests in here that
             were--just weren ' t going to get him

             any sleep at all.
    Conrad   This was this 145 mode this was at D- 6,

             D-4, D- 7 and D- 2.     It was the 145 mode
             for the 01 and 414 .
    Cooper   That ' s right .    At day 4 , 48 hours--
    Conrad   Yeah, here I have this thing--4th day,
             U. S. passes--we started at 11 :00 o!clock.
    Cooper   What 1 s this 04, 4 hours , 48 minutes a.rid

             58 seconds there was a D-2 that we had
             no success on,
    Conrad   Now comment on that .      To do any of those

             things you have to have the platform on.

--- PAGE 117 ---
112



      FCSD r ep .   Then the platform wasn ' t on?

      Conrad        Was not on .

      Cooper        That ' s right- -see you got to he able

                    to have an accurate means of pointing

                    of having yaw and--

      Conrad        They said pitch up 83 degreeR, yaw 45
                    degrees left--out of that window.     You

                    don I t have any idea in the wo:dd.   I

                    mean, we didn't even have rat1:! gyros

                    powered up .   You have no idea in the

                    world where you a.re pointing, just-­

      Cooper        You are wasting your time try:Lng to do

                    this kind of job without a platform .

      FCSD rep.     What is this a shot of--what "i.s this

                    target?

      Conrad        Well , for any pointing r equiraments ,

                    especially ones in the sky--

      Cooper        Where they are going at different angles ,

                    see.

      Conrad        You have to have a platform.

      Cooper        Then along at day 4, 5 hours and 40

                    minutes , Buzz ' s eX])eriment was placed

                    in there on a switch--


                                           f

--- PAGE 118 ---
113



Conrad   Yeah.

Cooper   That was the straw that broke the camel's

         back--we didn't do .

Cooper   Did MSC- 1, day 4, 5 hours and something
         to .6 hours and something. Let ' s see--

         then on down to day 4 , 11 hours and 5 minutes
Conrad   Powered up.
Cooper   Then it ' s powered up platform, had a

         medical data pass , 11 hours and 25 minutes

         aligned SEF--11 hours and 40, powered

         up the rate gyro and computer on--11 :51

         bio-med recorder number 1 off, number 2 on.

Conrad   That was half way through the flight .

Cooper   11 : 55:55 we had a D- 6, the recovery ship,

         and that wa$ ~he one we saw.
Conrad   No , we didn ' t get it .   I got no joy on

         that one .
Cooper   OK .

Conrad   We got them the next time around I think.

Cooper   11 : 55:55 , 134 sequence zero A.
Conrad   Yeah, we got them the next rev .

Cooper   OK .

Conrad   OK--I 1 ve got the D- 6 at 12:24:02 was done-

--- PAGE 119 ---
114



               that was the sequence 091 or W:~atever

               it was.

      Cooper   Right .

      Conrad   The platform aligned SEF, for t he command

               pilot we got- -

      Cooper   Purged the fuel cells at day 4 , 12 hours

               and 50 minutes .
      Conrad   Yeah, SA D- 13 on Laredo at 13 : :?3 : 39-­

               what happened?
      Cooper   Neither one of us saw the target --on

               that one.

      Conrad   I'm not sure I 1ve got anything written

               down.     I don ' t .   Why don ' t I ?    Huh.

               I don ' t know what happened.             Then we had

               a D-6 089-what the heck was 085'?
      Cooper   Day 4, 13:58:50 , D- 6 in F.a.st .Af'rica- -
      Conrad   0h yeah, that was Blantyre Aercdrome and

               Malawi.     I don't think we got that one.
      Cooper   Yes we did.
      Conrad   Did we?
      Cooper   Malawi airport--remember?
      Conrad   Maybe we did- -I don't have a done written

               on it for some reason.

--- PAGE 120 ---
115



    Cooper   Yeah, I remember we had the picture of
"
             it you know and it was out there on

             that little point--or wa s that the one

             by Ka.no that we couldn' t find because

             of the weather.

    Conrad   There's one in there where we did 089- ­

             let's see what it looked like .
    Cooper   Look up 089--that 1 s the one wher e we

             had all the weather on it by Ka.no ,

             wasn ' t it?

    Conrad   Yeah, well , we saw these lakes but-­

    Cooper   We saw the lakes but that was in under

             a big deck of clouds .

    Conrad   Did we or didn't we get the aerodrome.      I

             guess we didn ' t get the aerodrome.

    Cooper   No , we didn't get it.   Because remember

             we saw the lake and saw the river come

             out and then there was this whole deck
             of clouds over there so we couldn ' t get

             that because of the cloud cover .

    Conrad   That's right.

    Cooper   We saw the general area-- where it was

             at--but we couldn' t get on it at all .

--- PAGE 121 ---
116



               Let ' s see at 14:15, day 4, D- 4, D- 7 ,

               410c.

      Conrad   D- 4 , D- 7 , 410c was--that•s one of the

               ones where we were supposed to track

               a star or something--yeah , we were

               supposed to track Nunki and we never

               could find it because it was--

      Cooper   It was up in first, early--

      Conrad   It was up early-- we had troubln with

               that .   That ' s another thing I could have

               recommended those gu:ys--we got enough

               to do in the spacecraft not to worry

               about setting up the star chart and

               figuring out from the- -somethir..g you

               can ' t do from the star chart is figure

               out a pitch and yaw angle and the

               grormd ' s got that information up the

               kazoo, so on any of these ones where
               they want you to photograph some stars

               or anything else-you' ve got to platform

               up again - the easiest thing to do is

               send up a pitch and yaw with it and

               that just takes all the work out of it

--- PAGE 122 ---
117


               in the spacecr aft. Gosh, we ' re messing

               around with the star charts- - still don ' t

.::            tell you how much to pitch up or yaw
               around to find the darn thing.
      Cooper   They tell you where it would be on yaw
               path.
      Conrad   You just sort of got to figure it out­
               it •s over to the left or the right and

               go over and look for it .    Well , that ' s
               not the way to do it .    Heck, we never

               navigated that way in the Navy.      You
               go into star chart with local hour angle

               and it gives you the elevation and azimuth

               to the star, from North, and that ' s
               essentially what you need here .     You
               need the elevation and azimuth angle off
               the orbital plane.
      Cooper   OK , let's see--at day 4, 14:56:50 we had
               a D- 4, D- 7 White Sands Sled Run which
               was successful .
      Conrad   And then we got the ship.
      Cooper   An then we got the D- 6 424a r ight after

               that.   At 14: 57 : 31 we got D-6 sequence 134 .

--- PAGE 123 ---
118



      Conrad      Which we did photograph the Lake Champlain.
      FCSD rep.   Did you see this thing-- how dii you

                  pick this thing up--did you us: a tele­
                  scope or-
      Cooper      We saw him visually - found h~n visually
                  and then
      FCSD rep.   From the wake--
      Cooper      Put the pipper on him and Pete took

                  pictures with the big camera.     Then we

                  got a D- 6 15:04:40 series 134.   What
                  was that?
      Conrad      That ' s the ship .
      Cooper      Well, what was the 424a?
      Conrad      That was the White Sands MissiJe Run.
      Cooper      Oh, OK,    We got a D-4, D-7 at 15:19:00
                  that was the 419--
      Conrad      The 419 was the ascension calibration.

                  We did that darn thing again for them-­

                  remember that over Australia or something

                  I don't know what the heck we did it

                  for because I told them we got that

                  thing once.    Anyhow, then we did a platform

                  aline.

--- PAGE 124 ---
~FIDE~TIA                                    119



Cooper   All right - 15 hours 40 minutes-

Conrad   Then D- 4, D- 7 was the second Minuteman

         which we saw but we didn't track.
Cooper   16 hours 28 minutes, 423b - we did the

         HF tests 4 at 17 hours.
Conrad   Wait a minute- I got a - we had an S- 7

         at 16:37 and it was the thunderstorms in

         southern Florida.    I think we got those.
Cooper   We got that one.    All right -

Conrad   We had a D- 6 at 16: 51:25 which was an 065 -
Cooper   Right

Conrad   And if I ' m not mistaken that was that

         Island off Brazil and we photographed

         the wrong island - then we found out
         our mistake in time and -

Cooper   Just as we were going over we shifted

         over to the other island -

Conrad   And we photographed the right island -

         it lookeQ. like there was only one island
         out there and we found out there were

         two i s lands out there so we did get the

         right pictures .

Cooper   There again, the maps we had just weren ' t

--- PAGE 125 ---
120




               big enough in their overall look at

               things to give you a clue as to what -

      Conrad   I ' ll show you this - This is the kind of

               thing that you just can•t have-that was

               065- now what you need to help you find

               an island is some clue as to Khere it

               is located in the world- well, t hat ' s

               what we had--

      Cooper   Yeah, there was the island--

      Conrad   Now it turns out that right up about here

               there ' s another island--laught er--and

               man we took all kinds of -- sE!e fortunately

               it was far enough away - you •• look 15

               seconds up there is 15 x 8 is 120 miles-

               and 120 miles is a lot of dist ance but

               you are covering that in 15 snconds - well
               fortunately this was about 15 or 20

               seconds - we·were pitched down and we
               were at least at the 90 and Wt:! got the

               second island a little bit pa::Jt the nadir ,

               because we already had been t :cack.ing t his

               first island see and thlm here we came

               drifting along feeling how great we were

--- PAGE 126 ---
Q©~fNTtAE,                                      121



           getting the picture but we really dirui 1 t

           think it quite looked like the right

           island but because we didn ' t see an air

           field on it - well here came the island

           with the air field - it was a good 200

           miles down the pike but you need a little
           more -
Cooper     A little more help as to where it ' s at.

           Let ' s see 17 hours was HF test 4 -
           we did that,
Conrad     Yeah, we powered down .
Cooper     17 :40 - Medical data - we did that.
Conrad     Yeah, now here is a good time for a comment

           on this thing.   Every time we went thru

           these state- side passes now a - to operate

           on a state- side passes - they start out
           two orbits before you hit the state- side

           passes- you started getting chatter--the

           first time you hit Carnavon and then well-­
           no , I take that back - the first thing

           that happened is we come by that low sweep

           up thru Central America liliere we got

           Canaveral and Antigua and we get Houston

--- PAGE 127 ---
122



      remote from there and it would be Dave

      Scott and Elliot ,a.nd they would start

      giving us a little poop about what was

      going to go on that day see--and heck

      they'd tell us a little bit acout the

      latest hydrogen calculations er something

      (laughter) and that was - we 1 ci. sort of

      get an idea of what was going on, then

      the next t~ip around is the first time
      you pick up Carnavon and then he'd sta.xrt

      to give you an update and he'd get about

      half way through what you wern going to

      do in those state- side passes and we ' d
      pick up Dave Scott again at Canton and

      he I d finish it and then we'd come by that

      fringe pass by the states and that ' s when

      they changed the watch and we'd say hello

      to everybody that was going off and coming

      on and then we'd have all the stuff and

      the next trip around - that would start

      the three revs over the states see and

      then it was just go--you had gear all

      over the spacecraft - gee we had everything

--- PAGE 128 ---
123


         we owned out and we ' d be going through

         books and writing and flight plan and

         then we ' d leave the states and it says

         pilot ' s nap period and Gordo was supposed

         t o do something else and that was imposs­

         ible - it would take two more revs to

         clean up the spacecraft before we ever

         got to do anything else so we never got

         on that part of the flight plan.   This

         pilot nap period - that was a big joke -

Cooper   Now pilot's eat period and nap period

         and all -

Conrad   Always cleaning the spacecraft and we

         had to clean up the whole thing - it was

         a good time to do it -- we ' d have meal

         garbage out and we ' d have all the experi­
         ments out so we ' d -- up to the states on

         that last one .

Cooper   It was handier to eat together too -

         because you had to get the stuff out

         anyway--so it was handier for us just to

         eat together so we just always ate at

         the same time .



                               •

--- PAGE 129 ---
124


      Conrad   And we would be in the procesH of cleaning

               up when we'd come by and we ' d have that
               Guaymas pass where we'd come ·1:iy and have

               California acq. and Guaymas acq. and

               we ' d go right down the side of Mexico ,

               the west side, and then cross the isthmus

               and go down Brazil and then fI'Om there

               on you - that was your last contact with

               the states and you'd stay out there with

               the CSQ RKV cycle through the rest of

               the night and that time we got all the

               way around there and picked up the CSQ
               the first time and we ' d have Hawaii once

               more -
      Cooper   Then we were already through my s l eep

               period and that ' s supposed to be Pete ' s

               sleep period - that was the not:'lllal sleep
               period.
      Conrad   We worked our tail off that wh:>le time -
      Cooper   That was the normal sleep peri,:,d and we

               just barely have things all sq·.lared away

               so then we both powered down - ·-
      Conrad   Go thru this terrible 50 minut,:s with both

               of us like this - we ' d uh- uh, oh, yeah - hi

--- PAGE 130 ---
125



         there - laughter .
Cooper   Yeah, ok, everything 1 s fine (snoring)
         (1a,1g~+.er) .

Conrad   Talk about lonely--that •s when it really

         got bad.    You really knew you were out
         in the no place.
Cooper   We just discussed one thing while you

         were out, was this window situation.        You

         couldn't even begin to see out of Pete' s
         window when we launched.    It was really

         terrible and it was in between those

         outside panes and glass .   And my window

         between the outside sealed units and the

         inside unit of glass there was a bee -
Conrad   Oh, yeah , yeah, that stuff is on the

         inside of the outer pane.     I ·don' t   know

         how that got there.
Cooper   And inside these two outside units on my

         side in between those and the inside pane

         of glass there was a little bee and a

         fly and a whole bunch of flecks of dirt

         and odds and ends in there.     And my

         window wasn ' t as frosted over as his.

--- PAGE 131 ---
126



                   Over the period of time, they both got

                   a certain amount of little frosty scum

                   on the outside of them and when we fired

                   the scanner covers there were about foUT

                   or five little gray flecks of etuff and

                   debris just flew everywhere right in that

                   period of time and four or five· little

                   gray flecks came on the window.

      Conrad       Heck, that's before launch isn't it?

                   Oh, I didn ' t know that.

      FCSD rep .   Did it ever clear up?

      Cooper       No . I think it was just unforg:i.v eable.
                   I think if they can I t do bette1· on windows

                   than that they ought to just qt.it trying.

                   I could see maybe having some El.lllount of

                   debris-and then when you use the thruster s
                   the debris would all show up again.      We

                   were on--here we are up here--t his med

                   data.   Day 4, 16 hours and that data -

                   did .

      Cooper       16 hours 28 minutes - D-4, D- 7 , D-6 , 423b.
                                                                   i'
      Conrad       Yeah that was the second missi:.e - which

                   we didn I t get any track on -- ue saw -

--- PAGE 132 ---
ONFl0ENTIA[                                   127


Cooper    HF test 4 then at 417 ,   4:17:40 med

          data was done.   HF test 4 ended on -

          down there - OK, day 4, 19 hours 44 minutes

          was S- 7 which was completed .

Conrad    Yeah, both the ·s- 71 s were completed.

Cooper    Then there's an S- 7b, 21 hours , 9 minutes

          and 50 seconds storm Doreen - we completed,

          Time of closest approach was at 21:09:30,

          They had us tracking this storm - you

          see

Conrad    Oh, yeah.

Cooper    We estimated the eye was approximately

          250 miles left of course -

Conrad    Have you got the orbits - yeah, here it

          is .   This thing is the greatest thing in

          the whole world .   It 1 s the simplest -

          cheapest thing in the spacecraft and -

Cooper    It is - it is great.

Conrad    We would have been lost without this

          thing.    This orbital update map.   Boy,

          it really- well, the orbit was really

          good as far as -

Cooper    You really don't know where ~ou are at-

--- PAGE 133 ---
,,,
128



      Conrad          But this is a good little map t oo .     It

                      really has the right things on it.

                      There wasn't anytime we didn ' t Look

                      down and know exactly where we ·Here.

                      This thing is really great.       Probably the

                      cheapest thing in the spacecraft.

      Cooper          That 1 s one Jerry Jones made up.    We tried

                      out a long time ago and I said I liked

                      it and I wanted to take one like that

                      rather than this big elaborate one -

      Conrad          Yeah, it really worked great.

      Conrad          Yeah, I just saw all these map star updates

                      we had here.

      Cooper          Yeah.   One thing they could do .     They

                      could put about 3 or 4 more orbi ts on it

                      and not have t o update it so often .      Might
                      be a little handier.    Just a tr.ought -

                      but it 1 s good the way i t is.    CK, l et's

                      see , we ' re on day 4, 22 hours en d 20
                      minutes - we did a cabin l ighting survey.

      Conrad          We did the radar test 10 .    Cabi n lighting

                      S-7 , MSC-1.
      Cooper          And med data.


               ~tf>fNT=IAL

--- PAGE 134 ---
~      ffDffiTIA[                                129



Conrad       Apollo landmark 207- that was at 07 :14:25

             must be day 5 ,

Cooper       No , not that far along - We did UHF 6

             we did at 2 hours , day 5, 2 hours and

             something.

Conrad       You said you had an S-7 that was again

             during my sleep cycle and you said missed

             while discussing Cryos with CSQ.

Cooper       Right.

Conrad       And then you had an MSC 1 at 05 :40 and you
             got that done.

Cooper       Now you're ahead of me--hold up just a

             minute .   We 're down here now - let~   see -

             here's the S-7.    05 :40 MSC- 1 that was done .
Conrad       You got your Apollo landmark -

Cooper       Apollo landmark at sequence 207 at 7 hours

             and 14 minutes.

Conrad       What was 207?

Cooper       Lake Titicaca

Conrad       That was the Canaries -

Cooper       Oh, yeah , all right.   Then we had SAD- 13 -

             vision tests on both of us which we did

             together instead of separately.      And then

--- PAGE 135 ---
130              NFl0Etsl:TIAt                '4




                 at 5 day , 10 hours and 20 mim:.tes we

                 had Apollo No. 208 , which we g'Ot .        We

                 had S- 502 which we got .         We had D- 4,

                 D- 7, sequence 414 which we got and we

                 had the platform tests which ·Ke did .
      Conrad     Yeah then we got the radar teet run -
      Cooper     And Pete has a note here "Get serious,"

                 it really starts getti ng thick and
                 heavy.--

      Conrad     Well , I don't know--they were really getting
                 wild -
      Cooper     We had a platform aline - plat form test,

                 radar test , this is day 5, 11 hours and

                 35 minutes - We had D- 6 , D- 4, D- 7 , platform
                 aline, radar test -
      Conrad     That ' s where they were off the·ir rocker.
      Cooper     But we got them.   Those were s.ll in the

                 day 5, 11 to 12 hours -
      Conrad     Listen, there ' s a lot of sloppy things

                 in there - I mean we got thine:s done but

                 we missed little   subtleties -· like we

                 were supposed to run the 16mm camera
                 along with some part of the I R gear and

                 I wouldn I t get that on - and E. bunch of
                                       .Iii

               0NF-IDENT.IAL

--- PAGE 136 ---
G0MF-IDFiNTl~"t                                 131



            little things .   Again, we were always

            man, they had stuff thrown at us as fast
            as you could say Jack Robinson,

Cooper      Let ' s see--S-B , D-13 at Laredo--do you have

            one of those right in that period- day 5,

            13 hours -

Conrad      Day 5, 13 hours - no .

Cooper      I don ' t have it either .

Conrad      I have this all scratched out for some

            reason ,

Cooper      D- 6 - This is where we really began to

            have trouble with something -- what was

            it we were really having trouble with?

Conrad      The O.AMS systems cut out.

Cooper      That ' s right.   The O.AMS systems pooped

            out .   Day 5, at about 11 hours when we
            were cranking up for this is when we found

            that our OAMS systems was really getting

            bad, and we already had discovered that

            we had one thruster out and a partial
            otrer one out but this is the time when

            we found out we had about 3 others that

            were just about out.

Conrad      Yeah, I have a little note here - report
         - ~ NFIDENilAl

--- PAGE 137 ---
132
                                         •
               to fl ight ~oi ce tape out - num·oer 7 yaw

               left thruster out and OAMS heat er light

               turned ba ck on again.

      Conrad   And so we were supposed to ask 7 Keywest

               and D- 8 S- 13, SAD- 13 about 6 : 22:50 -

      Cooper   OK - From ther e on for a while things

               just got scrubbed i n the flight plan on

               that day five , the l atter part of the

               time on entries there .

      Conrad   Yeah, that ' s when they got us into this

               minimum power down - voice cont~ol - 1

               suit f an - 2 coolant pumps , 1 a,Jq_. aid ,

               UHF r eceiver, DOS receiver , PCM -
      Cooper   That ' s when they decided the hydrogen

               wasn I t going to l ast at the preoent
               electri cal rate .
      Conrad   That ' s what I wrote down - Houston hot

               dope - drift for three days - r icky, tieky.
               (Laughter) Sorry -
      Cooper   But at day 5, 19 hours and 25 minutes we

               did get a fix on Doreen - wher e she was
               ther e .
      Conrad   Yeah, everything happened that day.         That

--- PAGE 138 ---
IDE1'1TIA -                                 133



           was when the PC02 started to read for

           some reason.

Cooper     PC02 came off the scale and was reading

           way up there for a while.        We broke out

           one of the co tapes, and it showed that
                        2
           we were still all right .       We figured the

           gage was its usual reliability.

Conrad     Okay, now, I think this is good for the

           recorder right here.      At that time, as

           of 5 days 21 hours 00 minutes they

           wanted to know what our experiment status

           was.     So on the UHF , we had completed

           tests 1, 2, 3 and I said 6 just so that

           if they were still trying to keep that

           number under their lid.         That's what it

           sounded like because they kept mentioning

           it.     We ' d done D- 1 , 1, ~, and 3 which
           had completed D- 1.     D- 2 we had done

           nothing, because we didn ' t get the REP.

           D-6 we'd taken 72 pictures .        D- 4 , D- 7 we ' d

           had completed 405, 408, 409, 410, 410a,
           410b , 411, 414 , 420 , 422 , 423a, 423b , 424a ,

           425a.     We had 16 minutes and 8 seconds of

         Jeo~~f6i~tW               on. ~

--- PAGE 139 ---
134



      Conrad   On S-8, D-13 we completed all tests although we

               didn ' t see the targets several times.     On S- 1 we
               completed it.     S-5 and S-6 we'd taken three maga­

               zines for a total of 210+ pictures .      S-7 we had
               23 pictures or 8 groups that they had ~anted plus

               we had taken cal card picture.     The M-1 broke at

               4 days and some odd hours, and I don ' t know the
               exact time .    M-3 didn't make any difference.    MSC-1

               we did on day one , three, and four.      Apollo-we got

               Landmarks 207, 8, 12 1 and 13.    We'd done 4 cabin

               lighting surveys.     The humidity sensor we read at

               least once a day, and the 16mm film we had one and

               a quarter magazines shot up which is general stuff.

               That was what we had completed in 5 days.       Then

               from there on, we went through this big drill of

               sending up of all kinds of experiments but don't

               expend any fuel on them.    An so we were pretty well
               restricted to S-5, S-6, and S-7 type phJtographs

               which was about all we got.

      Cooper   Catch as catch can.

      Conrad   We marked down all this other stuff.      W1~ did catch

               a D-4/D-7 occasionally if it was the ri1sht sort of

               thing-if we were sort of pointed in the right

--- PAGE 140 ---
FJD~TIAL ~                                 135



         direction.     Like I got a--in drifting flight I

         got 417 and 418 at 6 days 8 hours 41 minutes .

         I don ' t remember what that is .

Cooper   From here on , we just-- we drifted through this

         period of time and the only time we ever powered

         anything up was when the drift rates got up pretty

         high.     We would power up, damp the rates , and power

         right back down , and hope we- - and did manage to

         keep somewhat attitude so we could get occasionally

         some pictures .     For instance on--we did continue

         doing MSC-1 experiments which incidentally-- even in

         times of minimum power when they wanted us powered

         right down to our eyeballs they still left MSC- 1

         on.     I don ' t know how much fuel i t takes , but it
         always erks me if we had to have everything off

         why could they manage to leave that one on.        Day

         6 , 8 hours, 41 minutes we got D-4/D-7 417 , 418 , and

         414 .
Conrad   Yes , on that one day, Day 6 , when they had the HF

         tests in Houston--0roadcast HF- - we had Houston on

         HF till 15 hours 59 minutes 00 seconds and this
         included the remoting through Ascension,and the

         remoting through Ascension was beautiful .        That

--- PAGE 141 ---
was really good recepti on.   And then tl:.ey were

         playing 'Never on Sunday' and that faded out at

         15 hours 08 minutes.

Cooper   That was the best HF test we had .

Conrad   Yes , and we started receiving the music again

         coming around the other side of the wo1·ld at

         15 hours 49 minutes.   This must be 16::9.    14 : 59?

         14 : 59, I got the wrong number in here J think .     I'll

         just make a note to check it.    No, thi~ is 15:08,

         15:49 which is about right half way arcund the world

         and this number may be wrong.

Cooper   Is that day 6?

Conrad   Yes, check it and see if we got a note in the Flight

         Plan.   Day 6 at 1400, almost 1500.    Then we did

         some of these radar tests and for the 1ikes of

         me to underst and do you know what was ~ome of the

         discussion on why the radar didn't work after that .

         Gee, it locked up so beautifully the first day on

         the REP down there.

Cooper   The one REP pass we had, man, things Jt;.s t worked

         like a charm.

Conrad   And it just never did work after that.     We always

         got a lock on.

--- PAGE 142 ---
137
                                          •

Cooper   And I read analog.      My analog read beautiful , but

         he couldn ' t read out digital and that ' s impossible

         because the analog data comes from the di gital da ta .

         I could even tell where it was .       It was s i tting

         out on Meritt Island, wasn't it?        I ' ll bet--it wa s
         accurate enough--I ' ll bet you that you could almost

         t ell what building it was in.       It looked like it

         was r ight out here in the south part of the complex

         here .

Conrad   Where wer e we receiving music f r om?

Cooper   We got a little Chinese HF br oadcast every now and

         then.    Peoples program.

Conrad   We went through these radar tests just drif ting

         around out there .

Cooper   Oh, yes , they were trying to jam our r adios .

         Everytime we went over the China area .
Conrad   I had the decided impression that they were t r ying

         to jam our UHF.      So it was either that or--oh, yes ,

         where was it where we heard the radar on the r adio .

Cooper   China.

Conrad   No , we were along the fringes of Russia , but we

         went over China.     We were over something like Indi a .
Cooper   We wer e coming right over the Tibet- - the hi gh Tibet


                  QWflO

--- PAGE 143 ---
138



               area there , and we were just on the south edge of

               China.

      Conxad   Have you ever t axied close by radar?      You can hear

               i t on radio , i t goes "beep , beep, beep, beep,"

               and you can even clock the antenna sweep , and

               you can get about three pulses . . . . "Beep ,beep ,beep,"

               and then , "beep, beep , beep" , and you can see that

               old antenna down there on the ground going around

               and we could hear the UHF as big as heck and we

               were way up in the middle of no place, and I know

               darn well it must have been--Russian radar.
      Cooper   We were up on the high of southern China.       High
               plains area.

      Conxad   Okay, then we ran another eXPeriment summary, and

               this 

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