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NASA-UAP-D017: Preliminary Gemini 4 Crew Debriefing, Part II, 1965

Released: June 12, 2026

This document is a preliminary transcript (Part II) derived from voice recordings of the Gemini 4 flight crew debriefing taken aboard the recovery ship,…

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                                             PRELIMINARY

                        GT-4 FLIGHT CREW DEBRIEFING TRANSCRIPT

                                                PART II




                                             Prepared By

                               Spacecraft Operations Branch

                               Flight Crew Support Division

                                           June 18 , 1965




                     This material contains information affecting the
                     national defense of the United States within the
                     meaning of the Espionage Laws , Title 18. U. S. c.
                     Section 793 and 794 , the transmission or revela­
                     tion of which in any manner to an unauthorized
                     person is prohibited by law.

                     Group 4:     Downgrade at 3 year intervals


I                                 Declassified after 12 years



                                                                  NOTICE: This document may be exempt from
                                                                  public disclosure under the Freedom of Infor­
                                                                  mation Act (5 U.S.C. 552). Requests for its re­
                                                                  lease to persons outside the U.S. Government
                                                                  should be handled under the provisions of
                                                                  NASA Policy Direct:ve 1382.2.

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•   •   I

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PREFACE

      This preliminary transcript was made from voice tape -recording3

of the GT-4 flight crew debriefing conducted aboard the recovery ship,

the USS Wasp, on June~' 1965, and concluded at the Manned Spacecraft

Center on June 12, 1965.

      Although all the material contained in this transcript has been

edited , the urgent need for the preliminary transcript by mission

analysis personnel precluded a thorough editorial review prior to its

publication.   Errors in this transcript will be corrected as soon as

possible and an official transcript will be published at a later date.
      Thia document contains a transcript of the second part of the

total debriefing.   A preliminary transcript of the first part was

published on June 16 , 1965 , and it contains the crew ' s description
of the mission from an operational standpoint.

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itit 4Fl8E!I ◄ • I Jlt'&'

                              TABLE OF CONTENTS

Paragraph                                                           Page number
 8 . 0 SYSTEMS OPERATION
       8. 1    Pla tfo:r,n ................................................ . 1
       8. 2    O..AMS ....... ............ .........• ...... ...............• . 5
       8. 3    RCS ................................................ , ... 17
       8 .4    Environmental Control System •••·················••••···22
       8.5     CoDlDlunications ........................................ . 68
       8. 6    Electrical System ...................................... 82
       8.7     Computer ............................................... 87
       8.8     Crew Station .......................................... . 93
       8.9     Bio-Medicat ........................................... 134

9.0    OPERATIONAL CHEDKS
       9 . 1 Apollo Landmark Identification (D- 6) .................. 144
       9 . 2 Apollo Yaw Orientation •••·•··•·•••·•··••·•••···•·•·•••168
       9 . 3 One Attitude Thruster Fai l ure Check ... ......... ....... 171
       9.4 Horizon Scanner Track Check •·•••·•• ••·• · •• · •••• ·•·•••• 172
       9. 5 Horizon Scanner Check ....................... ...... ~ ... 173
       9 . 6 HF Transmission Reception Check ....................... 181
       9·. 7 Orbit Navigation Check ................................ 182
       9.8 Rela tive Humidity Test ................................ 185
       9.9   Zodiacal Light Check .................................. 186
10.0 VISUAL SIGHTINGS
      10.1     Cotllltdo\.lll .................•.•........................ . 188
      10. 2    Powered Flight . ................... ..... ..... ... ... . .. . 188
      10 . 3   Orbital Flight . ............................... ........ 191
      10 .4    Reentry .................... . ......................... . 213

11 . 0 EXPERIMENTS
       11 . 1 Two-Color Earth-Limb Photography (MSC-10) ............. 217
       11 . 2 Synoptic Terrain and Weather Photography (S- 5 and S- 6) . 219
       11. 3 Simple Navigation with t he Sextant .... ......... ....... 219
       11.4 Electrostatic Charge (MSC- 1) .. .. ......... .....·........ 229
       11.5 Proton- Electron Spectrometer and Tri-Axis Flus-Ga.te
               Magnetometer (MSC- 2 and MSC-3) ........................ 229
       11 . 6 Radiation ( D-8) ........... ... ......................... 230
       11 . 7 Inflight Exerciser (M-3) . ........ .. . . .. ... ... ......... 230
       11 .8   Inflight Phonocardiogram (M-4) . . ...................... 232
       11 . 9 Extravehicular Activity . ... ... ...... .. .......... ...... 232
       11 . 10 Miscellaneous ................. . ....................... 232

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12 . 0 PRE-MISSION PLANNING
       12.1   Mi ssion Plan ( Trajectory) ....... .......... ...... .. .... 234
       12 . 2 Flight Plan ..................... ... .. .. ............... 234
       12 . 3 Spac ecraft Changes ............. ... . . .................. 239
       12 . 4 Mission Rule s ........... ..... ... . ....... . . . .... . ...... 240
       12. 5  Experiments ........................................... 241
       12 . 6 Training Activities ................. .... . . ............ 24 5

13. 0 MISSION CONTROL
      13.1   GO/NO GO ' s ............. .. .............. .... ........... 249
      13 . 2 PLA and CLA Updates ...................... . ............ 249
      13. 3  Consumable s ............... ... ............... .. ........ 249
      13.4   Flight Plan Changes ....................... .. .......... 250
      13. 5  Systems ............................................... 254

14 .0 TRAINING
     14 .1     Gemini Mission Simulator ..... . . .. ................ .. .. . 255
     14. 2     LTV Simulation .................. . ...... . ........ .... .. 260
     14.3      Centrifuge ...................... .. .......... . ... ...... 261
     14 .4     Translation and Docking Trainer ...... .. ............ ... 262
     14. 5     Planetarium ..................................... .. . ... 26 3
     14. 6     Systems Briefings ................................ .. ... 266
     14. 7     Flight Expe rimen ts ............ ... .............. ... .... 267
     14 . 8    Spacec raft Sys t ems Te s t .. . ...... ... ... . . .. .... ... .. ... 273
     14 . 9    Egress Training ........................ .. ..... : .... . .. 274
     14. 10    Parachute Training ................... . . ... ............ 275
     14 . 11   Launch Simulation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .............. . 276
     14 .1 2   Network Simulation . .... . ............ . . .. . . . . . . . . . ..... 277
     14. 13    Zero "G" Flight ........ . .......... ... . .. . .. . ... . ...... 278
     14. 14    Flight Plan Traini ng .................... . ............. 279

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8.0 SYSTEMS OPERATION

8. 1 Platform

        McDivitt    Actually , the first portion of any alinement is

                    to cage the thing.     The case of caging the thing

                    is much more important than the alinement itself.

                    In the daytime I felt that I could cage the plat­
                    form to a reference with an error plus or minus

                    about 3 or 4 degrees in all axes .      Did you think

                    we could do that wel l?

         White      Only in the daytime.

         McDivitt   The yaw was a little problem.      It took longer
                    to get it, but if you kept after it for awhil e ,

                    I felt that you could get down to just a few

                    degrees.
         White      Within a couple of degrees .

         McDivitt   The big thing is that you have to stop your yaw

                    rates, and then sit there and look outside for

                    awhile and see which way you're going, straight

                    ahead or sideways .    If you are going sideways

                    you rotate around for awhil e and stop the rate

                    and then look out a gain.   Ri ght?    I felt you could
                    get the thing ca ged quite well.      We. didn ' t do it

                    BEF at all, did we? We never did cage in BEF.

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2


    White      I ' m not sure.

    McDivitt   The caging of the thing with small- end-forward in

               the daytime was r elative ly easy .   At night I don't

               think it would be quite tha t simple .     I think what

               you would have to do at night time is to point

               the spacecraft down at the ground pretty much so

               you can see the track ac ross the ground,      I could

               see which way the land was moving under me .       I

               felt--although I never did this --that if I could
               do that and then roll around to where I had no

               bank angl e , and fac e in my yaw directi on, either

               small-end or blunt-end- forward , stop t he ro l l t her e
               and pitch up to the horizon I could cage there

               withi n plus or minus 10 degrees for sure .      It was

               much less accurate at night, I fe lt, than in the

               daytime .

    White      You aren' t kidding!   We both felt that on those

               dark nights when you really couldn ' t see anything

               on the ground, pure star reference for yaw was

               pretty rough .

    McDivitt   Pure s tar reference for yaw was almost impossible

               to use.     That was the only place where that thing

               we decided not to take with us--the view of the
               stars through the window--might have been of some

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3


           use to us.      We knew the stars along our track but

           you couldn't see enough of them.      The quickest

           way to get the yaw reference was to look down at

           the ground.      Once we got the platform caged, aline­

           ment was quite simple .     All you had to do was just

           hold the needles at zero and the platform alined

           itself.       Of course you had to have the scanners

           on ,   The modes--the SEF and the EEF wer e identically

           the same except the spacecraft is pointing in

           different directions . You tended to null the
           needles by using pulses and just hold the needles

           very close to null and the platform alined itself

           through the horizon scanners .      Orbit Rate was a
           satisfactory mode, I thought.       As a matter of fact,

           it was very good.

White       I liked that Orbit Rate,
McDivitt   Yes, because we finally had a reference where we

            didn't have to look out and s ee the ground .     It 's

            like having the old altitude indicator back in an
            airplane .     The only thing was, we had the wrong

            orbit rate in the spacecraft because it was s e t

            for an orbit rate t hat was to take care of, I

            think, a 60 nautical mile circular orbit.       This
            was to take care of the short period of time between

           ~~ SQ -lii4Q"itsll-lM.- .

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4


               going to Orbit Rate at T- 5 and firing the retros

               at TR.     We wanted to have exactly the right rate

               in there so when we did our closed-loop reentry

               we wouldn ' t have an error.    As I said , I had the

               most accurate platform in the world with nothing

               to do with it .     I think the displays were adequate

               and the controls were adequate .     After t he first

               couple of revs I really didn ' t have any confidence

               at all in the platform.      I had done nothing to

               establish any confidence in it .     I really didn't

               get the chance to get the thing alined, and I

               real ly didn ' t have the view out the window to check

               it with.     We were hurrying and scurring through

               there .    We finally shut the thing down before I
               really got a chance to use it very much .     When we

               powered it up there on the third day and we saw

               that thing coming around there• -and cage properly,

               we compared the out- the- window attitudes and that
               old a ttitude reference was right there.     That's

               when I got some confidence in the platform.
    White      This is where we lost a couple of bets .
    McDivitt   That ' s right .   We lost a couple of beers on that
               platform .    At retrofire   I had a lot of confidence

               in the platform , but the first two and a half to

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                        three days I really didn't have anything with

                        which to establish any confidence.     It was just

                        an unknown.

             White      Jim did the majority of the work in this area and

                        I think his comments reflect my opinion also .
8.2   OAMS

         McDivitt       On the pad we did the thruster check that we
                        wanted to.     We went around one whole cycle and

                        got nothing.     We went around another whole cycle

                        and got nothing until we got to the l ast one.
                        We were going yaw left pitch-down, yaw right

                        pitch-up, yaw left pitch- down, yaw right pitch­

                        up .   When we got to that second pitch-up, I heard

                        the thrusters fire for the first time . ·
             White      You can hear them.     It was very distinct.

             McDivitt   That's right.     And then we went around and yawed

                        left and they fired again.    We -waited 20 seconds

                        and fired a yaw left again, and they fired again .
                        These were the bottom manifold jets.     We said,

                        "Okay, we're ready to go.", and that was the end
                        of it.    So, it -was a pretty straightforward check.

                        The inflight checks--I got my operational checks

                        on the OAMS systems while chasing the booster
                        around.    I had Direct, Pulse, and Rate Command in
                          Le !~FllffiPMxMii t a        J

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6


               there as I chased it around, and those were the

               only modes I intended to use right then .      Later

               on, I checked out the Reentry Rate Command and I

               checked the Rate Command before we thrusted .          It

               did seem to be operating fine .     Why don ' t you go

               through the next part , Eli?

    White      All right .   We 're going to get into the source

               temperature and pressure , the regulated pressure ,

               and the prope llant quantity .    Let ' s take the

               temperature first .    The temperature of our OAMS
               was 75 degrees all the way down the line .       The
               i nit ial indications on the pressures were approxi­

               mately 2800 psi for the source and 320 psi for the

               regulated pressure .

    McDivitt   The quantity gage operated all right except that,

               as I mentioned earlier , the thing seemed to wander

               up and down somewhere between 2 and 4 percent ,
               depending upon where you were in the mission .

               You ' d read it one time and it would be 60, and

               you'd read it a little while later and it would

               be 62, and you 'd r ead it a little while l ater and

               it 'd be back about 60 .   The greatest variation in

               that thing that ever occurred was when I went to
               sleep one time with it reading 60 and woke up and

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7


           it was reading 56.   Another hour or two after that

           it had climbed slowly back up to 60 again.     I

           had a long time to look at it in the same position.
           When we ended the cha.sing-around at the end of the

           first hour, we were down to 70 percent indicated

           and we never got below 50 percent in four days.

White      I'll tell you, the position it seemed to stay

           for days and days was 59 to 60 percent.     We fired

           in Pulse Mode for a long time with the gage at

           that position, and all of a sudden that one time

           it dropped down to about 55 percent .

McDivitt   But then it came back up to 60.

White      I guess it did , didn ' t it? The temperatures all

           stayed fairly constant.    If I   recall .right, they

           dropped down to around 70 degrees.      It seemed to
           me they continually decreased throughout the

           flight.    I noticed this particularly in the RCS,

           but I guess we'll get to that later.     The propellart

           quantity though , I think we mentioned earlier ,

           ended up on our gaging at about 3 percent at the
           end .   We got a little bit of ground information on

           the 0AMS propellant.    I felt a little suspicious

           of the gage when it kept staying there at 59 to 60

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8



               percent for so long.

    McDivitt   We were pretty miserly with that OAMS fuel .       We

               set out to save the fuel and we sure did it .

    White      I think that in future missions , if they permit

               the crew to use the Puls e Mode in a saving-manner

               they could do a lot more with the mission--if you

               could use Pulse Mode instead of just free-drifting

               around.    In other words , line yourself up so you

               can make some decent observations.

    McDivitt   Shoot!    We were in Horizon Scan Mode when we got
               the last data, and I don ' t think we used any more

               fue l than we were when we were in free drift.

    White      That ' s right.   We certainly got more out of the

               orbit than we did when we were just drifting free.

    McDivitt   I 'll tell you one record that we ought to hold .

               We've looked at the earth from more different
               angles than anybody else in the world .    Well,

               maybe not .   I guess the Russians did , but we sure

               got a lot of different views of that earth as we

               rotated around.

    White      I thi nk the ground information that they called up

               on the status of our OAMS wasn't as much as they

               could have called up to us, but I 'm really satis­
               fied that our OAMS was staying pretty constant .

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9


McDivitt   So did I.    The way I felt was that I knew that we

           had to be as miserly with the fuel as we possibly

           could, so we got as much out of as little fuel as

           possible .   There wasn ' t going to be anything to

           change that velocity.     We just went along and I

           really didn't care how they were plotting that fuel

           on the ground.    I knew that we were starting to
           get ahead of the schedule, because I was plotting

           it roughly onboard the spacecraft .    I could see we
           were ~p above the line that we needed to remain
           above to handle our OAMS retrofir~.
White      Actually , we followed the profile rather closely,

           We leveled off there at first, and then when we
           started using it , we we~c right down the profile,

McDivitt   We were a little below the line and we just held

           the same fuel level until we walked out across it
           and got up on top of i+     Then, we went on down

           above it.
White      I think the controls and the switches were all
           satisfactory.

McDivitt   I think so too.    The attitude controller worked

           fine and dandy.    We didn't have any trouble with

           it.   The stick forces weren't too high.    We didn't

           get a chance to use it in any other mode besides

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10



                Pulse .   It seemed to wor k all right in Pulse.     I

                don't really have any comments to make on the atti ­
                tude controller .

     White      As a matter of fact, I didn't ~se any Rate Command .

     McDivitt   Didn't you really?

     White      We didn't use the Rate Command .    I got to use

                Direct a couple of times . I used Pulse a lot .

                Everytime you 'd go to sleep, I ' d rea lly have a bal]
     McDivitt   I could tell that by the wiggling.

     White      No . That was real ly great--flying that spacecraft .
     McDivitt   That ' s right, and I think Pulse is the mode .    You

                ca.n do a lot with it .   With a little bit of planning

                you could get to the attitude--if you start out 5

                or 6 minutes ahead of time.     That's what we were

                doing.    At 10 minutes before I was supposed to be
                at a certain atti tude I ' d start, and one or two

                little pulses and you'd--boop, boop, boop, boop--

                th€ bad thing was if you were in an attitude where

                you couldn ' t see the horizon and didn ' t know where
                you were.    You would give it a couple of pulses

                and nothing would happen, and you ' d have to give

                it a couple of more pulses.    It ' d t ake a long time

                sometimes before you would get to where you could
                see .   As a matter of fact, if at 5 minutes be fore
                  @i~FfDENTI>4ct

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11



           we were supposed to be at a certain attitude we

           weren't approaching it, I 'd start pulsing a little

           harder.
White      You'd hear a series of about five quick pulses.
NcDivitt   It was a very economical control mode.

           The ma.ne·,..;ver controller worked the way it was

           supposed to.

White      What about the deadband?     Did you think the dead­

           bands and breakouts were all satisfactory?
McDivitt   Yes, just like the one we used in the simulator.

           You've got a lot of slop in it when you're making

           gross maneuvers because you're not fixing your

           elbow and manipulating around tmt point.       You're

           fixing your shoulder and your whole arm, and

           it's just like shoveling coal--you've got about

           that much finesse to it .    I don't think there's

           much you can say about it.    The controls weren't
           too gross and they weren't too minor.      The whole

           thing was adequate.   We did have an inflight mal­
           function, or irregularity.    We were in Horizon
           Scanner Mode one time and Fd wanted to yaw around.

           He started to yaw and the thing rolled.      The

           Horizon Scanner Mode fired the roll thrusters to
           level it back off--

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12



     White       I couldn ' t get the yaw .    We had a circui t breaker

                 off.

     McDivitt    Finally , after you did that a couple of times I

                 looked up and saw we had knocked a circuit breaker

                 off.      That was one thing that we didn't cover in

                 EVA that I should have mentioned .        Ed was a real

                 hazar d to the switch positions in that he was all

                 over with his feet, arms , and hands - - .

     White       I don't think I threw any though .       Did I? Come

                 on now.     You ' re not guilty until you ' re convic ted .

     McDivi tt   I don ' t know .   You kept putting your foot on the

                 HF Reentry Antenna Switch and stepping on it .

                 Ha . Ha . Ha .
     McDivitt    As for the a tt i tude control modes --I mentioned
                 the Rate Command in OAMS seemed to be tighter than

                 the Rate Command i n RCS , a l though t hey use the

                 same electroni cs, the same gyros , and the i,,rhole

                 thing .    It might ha.ve just been my imagination,

                 but I felt that the Rate Command system in RCS was

                 a lot looser than it was in OAMS .       The Reentry

                 Rate Command operated just the way it should .         It
                 had a 4 degree dea dband , and handled the spacecra ft

                 very well during reentry .      Direct had a lot more
                 a uthor ity than I thought it would, but it was

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~IDE►~llM.                                         13


           pretty straightforward.     I think Pulse was the

           best mode on the spacecraft for the orbit phase .

           We were able to save all kinds of fuel, it worked

           fine, and it was just about what the doctor ordered .

           We didn't use the Horizon Scan Mode during about

           the first three days of flight, except for the second

           orbit when I think I \\18.S in Horizon Sca.n so that I

           could have the freedom to help Ed prepare for his

           EVA.   The last day we used the Horizon Sca.n Mode,

           and I found it to be an excellent mode .     There was

           only one case when it broke lock and didn ' t recover.
           Wasn't that it, F.d.?

White      You've got it in the book .

McDiYitt   We've got in the book and we'll check on that .

           The Ho~izon Scan Mode worked essentially for 24
           hours without any problem ~and I think it' s an

           excellent control mode,     It seemed to be very

           economical on fuel .    We were doing a lot of

           yawing around and right at sunrise a.nd sunset it

           seemed to get a l ittle nervous , especially if we

           had the horizon scanner pointed within about plus

           or minus 45 degrees of the sun.     The moon didn ' t
           seem to affect it at all.     I noticed that, occa­
           sionally, we would ~et some thruster blips with the sun

           n&Q·tslfiO EtslltAIA ·

--- PAGE 20 ---
14               :i Ob JFIDE1'4 Tf,t(ilf r
                pointed toward the hori zon scanner although we

                never got an unlock light .    We wouldn ' t get an

                unlock light , but we 'd ~et a bunch of maybe four

                or five thruster blips right there.

     White      Particularly at sunrise .

     McDivitt   It would hold .    I thought the Ho rizon Scan--

     Whi te     It was definitely getting some spurious signals

                through but not enough to break it out all the way .

     McDivitt   I thought the Horizon Scan Mode was an excel l ent
                attitude-hold mode.

     White      Did you notice the water boiler venting, Jim?

     McDivitt   Yes, I did.     We kept yawing around to the left .

                I believe it was left.      I did notice the fact

                that we were yawing , but not very much .    We were
                yawing a t rates that we r e extremely low and it just

                took a pulse every once in a while to handle the
                thing.   As a matter of fact, when we were chasing

                the booster around a lot a t the beginning, I never

                even noticed.     It was when we were i n the Pulse Con­

                trol Mode for a period of time,when we didn ' t do much
                thrusting in yaw, that I noticed     we did start drifting

                off in yaw .    So I did notice the water boiler venting.

--- PAGE 21 ---
15
                                                 •
White      I didn't think you noticed it earlier when we

           were working.

McDivitt   Well, I did notice it a little bit in that first

           orbit, but it wasn't distracting at all.          It would

           just drift off a little bit and I'd whop it            and
           it would be back .        At SEX:;0 + 30, I used the trans­

           lation thrusters to damp the booster-spacecraft

           rates .   One of them was a little higher than the

           other, although they were both down in the order
           of a half of a degree/second.         I did fire one

           thruster one time or possibly two times to damp

           the rate.    I don't know if it was pitch or yaw .

           You know, you are working in spacecraft pitch and

           booster yaw and spacecraft yaw and booster pitch.
           I was getting my coordinate system transformed

           around in my mind, going from booster coordinate

           system to the spacecraft .        I don't remember
           whether it was yaw or pitch, but I did thrust

           once or twice.    By the way , I could hear those
           thrusters fire.      At     SEC0 + 30 I said, "Thrusting, "
           and I started thrusting.         "Separate" , and Fd

           punched the SPACE.CRAFT SEPARATE.         We were in Direct
           and I thrusted straight ahead for about 5 seconds.

           Then I went back into Rate Command.          Separati on was

--- PAGE 22 ---
16


                just smooth--we didn ' t come off with a rotational
                rate .

     White      I think one of the things you mi ght commant on , Jim ,

                is that you fired most of those thrusters during

                that initial time .
     McDivitt   I ' m sure I fired the upward-firing thrust ers a
                number of times .     That isn ' t any more difficult

                to control than t he other one .    Actually you can

                fire these thrusters whether you are in Rate

                Command, Direct or even in Puls e .    When you fire

                them, you get a rate and you just damp t he rate

                out with the a ttitude controller .    When you are

                firing the translation thrusters , th0 things t hat

                you r ea lly hear are not the trans lation thrusters,

                but the attitude thrusters .     Those translation

                thrusters are really tough to hear , but the a tti­

                tude thrusters a re very easy to hear .     I doh ' t

                understand why.     They must be mounted differently
                because their location isn't that much different.

                I think I fired the aft-firing thrust ers a couple

                of times and they didn ' t make any more noise than
                the f orward-firing thrusters, that I could tell .

                The up and down and left and right ones were just
                as easy to fire as t he other ones .    Our OAMS retro

--- PAGE 23 ---
•                         17


                       was 127 feet/second which, incidently, happened

                       to come out exactly 2 minutes and 40 seconds.         I

                       suspect that we selected OAMS retrofire on the basis

                       of time, rather than on the basis of t::,.V.

            White      Very convenient , wasn't it?

            McDivitt   Very convenient.     It -was obvious there is no more

                       difficulty in timing 2 minutes 40 seconds during

                       our OAMS retrofire than it is during any other

                       thing.   We had no trouble with it .   I was convinced

                       that when we got through with it, that was really

                       the proper conversion factor between t::,.V and   t::,. T.


                       We had exactly 127 feet/second, and we sure had

                       the time nailed down.

8.3   RCS
        McDivitt       The operational checks that we did on the RCS

                       occurred at about TR minus an hour.     When I checked

                       the system out it seemed like I had a lot less

                       authority and a lot sloppier Rate Command than I

                       had in OAMS .    The operational check consisted of
                       pitching up and down , yawing left and right,

                       rolling lef+ and right on each ring in Rate Command
                       and Direct.     Direct worked as I expected it to.

                       In Rate Coremand, however, as I pitched up and down

                       I noticed that my top left yaw thrus ter was doing

--- PAGE 24 ---
18



             a lot of firing , too.    I started out checking the

             Rate Command , so I thought I might possibly have

             one bad pitch thruster that was causing a rolling

             moment that was bei ng counteracted by the yaw-roll

             jets.   When I did it in Direct, however , it wasn' t

             doing that . It wasn't rolling either , so I felt

             that it must just be a very tight deadband that

             was trying to hold us in there .     So , the operational
             checks were all right .   The only thing we had to

             monitor on the system was the temperature and the

             pressure of the propellant .     It seemed to hold
             pretty well .
     White   I have some comments on that.      I kept a running

             log of them as we went along .     The tempera ture

             started out at 75 degrees and 3000 pounds .      It held

             that way pretty well until about the 65th hour , when

             the temperature gradually went down.      The temperature

             decreased to a point where we started getting the

             RCS heater lights that we noted earlier.      We got

             about eight series of RCS heater lights .     It took
             about 5 minutes to extinguish the light .     It was

             t he A-ring,then the B- ring, and then the A-ring.

             I t s eemed to alternate each time back and forth and
             it came on for about 15 to 20 minute periods of

--- PAGE 25 ---
19


           time .    It started right after a night cycle .        It

           seemed rather natural to me that there wasn't

           really something wrong, but that we actually had

           a cold RCS thing out there and it did need some

           heat .    After heat was applied it did appear to go

           away.     I decided to go ahead and set up a slow roll

           rate in the daytime, and I kept that roll rate in

           for several orbits.     Whether this actually helped

           to get the light off or not, I don 't know.        We

           didn't get anymore lights after this time . I think

           there ought to be one other comment on the RCS ,
           and that is the temperatures and the pressures

           stayed up pretty well except when we actuated the

           system.    The pressures then went down further than

           we had expected them to go .    They went down to

           2400 to 2500 p~i.     This was a little lower than I
           expected to see.
McDivitt   I think the pressures in the RCS A and B dropped

           by about 100 pounds throughout the four-day period.
           They were slightly over 3000 pounds and they got

           down to slightly under 3000.
White      The lowest temperatures I noted were in the neigh­

           borhood of about 63 to 64 degrees.     They started
           out at 75 degrees.

--- PAGE 26 ---
20


     McDivitt    Let me ask you a question?

     White       Yes.

     McDivitt    When you turned on the RCS heaters , did you turn

                 on the heater s on both r ings , or did you turn on

                 the RCS Heater Swi tch and then turn off the cir cui t

                 breaker on the ot her ring?

     White       I turned the heaters on and then I checked to see

                 which ring it was that was ac tually heat ing up by

                 using the circuit breakers .     The first time I went

                 ahead and left them on and then the other ring

                 came on .   I fel t that one of them was about as
                 cold as the other, so I left the heaters on both

                 rings throughout the heating cycles .

     McDivitt    Good.

     White       They were in perfect sequence--A and B, A and B,

                 and about 15 minutes apart .     The regulari ty was

                 surprising.    The temperatures at the time when

                 these lights came on were indicating about 63 or
                 64 degrees and it seemed like it would come up a

                 little bit, and then come right back down and pop

                 back on again.    I felt it was not an actual

                 temperature problem .

     McDiv.itt   I used Rate Command, Reentry Rate Command and Pulse
                 c ontrol modes.   I didn ' t use Direct .   They a ll

--- PAGE 27 ---
'-OtslF-tD--E~.l lA:L:;;.                              21
        operated as I thought they should.       I've already

        mentioned I thought Rate Command was a little

        sloppier in RCS than it was in OAMS .      It certainly

        did a fine job of holding the retro attitude during

        retrofire.      Retrofire attitude control was excellent.

        We didn ' t deviate more than about a degree from

        the attitude we were supposed to hold, and I had

        plenty of authority there .      From my standpoint

        it couldn ' t have been any better.     I was really

        happy about it.      I used the Reentry Rate Command

        with roll rate gyro off, so that I had essentially
        Direct in roll and Reentry Rate Command in pitch

        and yaw axes.      It had the typical 4 degree deadband

        that it was supposed to have.       It did do rate damping

        as it was supposed to.      It performed just the way
        it should.      Fd, you want to cover that heater-lights

        thing again?      I think you've already got that thing
        pretty much in detail.

White   I have the precise times at which the lights came

        on.   It started at about the 64th or 65th elapsed

        time hour .     At 06:47, the first light, in the A-ring,

        came on .     At 08:23 the A- ring light came on again .
        That was the last time .     During that period of time

        the A and the B-rings cycled on and off inter-

          MWfiO,ftSl;QAJ•

--- PAGE 28 ---
22


                       mittently .

          McDivi t t   During descent , we turned the power off to see if

                       t he drogue chute was unstable . It wasn ' t .                We

                       turned the power back on and the propellant valves

                       of f and burned up a l l of t he fuel i n the manif olds .

                       We had no fumes after impact .

8.4 Environment a l Control ~ystem
          McDivi tt    I thought the suit mobility was as good in the

                       s pacecraft as it is anywhere else .                  I think these

                       sui ts a re pretty good suits .                I didn' t f i nd any

                       trouble with them whatsoever i~ the spacecraft

                       that I wasn ' t a lready awar e of .              The pressure held

                       up good .     I did a pressure check on the suit .                    It

                       bled down about 0. 2 or 0 . 3 psi in about 30 s econds ,

                       which real l y wasn ' t too bad .              The temperature was

                       a lways good.     It ran between about 50 and 55
                       degr e es diring the entire flight except when we

                       really worked hard .             I don ' t think it ever got up
                       over 60 .     Do you , Ed?

          White        No.

          McDivitt     We had reasonably good temperature contro l .

          Whit e       The ca bin temperature got up pretty high one time

                       and then it came back down .
         McDivitt      Yes , on about the first orbit .
                                            _ _ w , f _ . . , .....

                                                   I       '

--- PAGE 29 ---
23


White      That's r ght .    It got up to about 90.

McDivitt   100, it was.     We turned the cabin heat exchanger

           on for just a short time and it went right back on

           down to 80 degrees.

White      It stayed in the area of 82 to 83 degrees the whole

           flight.

McDivitt   The humidity in the suit must have been pretty dry

           because rrry foot dried out.   I didn't take any wet­

           bulb readings inside the suit.     The CO stayed at
                                                    2
           zero all the time.     It never did go up except when

           we'd go to o High Rate, when it would bound off
                       2
           the top peg and fall back down again. The comfort

           and suit controls were pretty reasonable.   The o
                                                            2
           demand regulator seemed to work all right . My

           umbilicals were short.     My fingertip    lights were

           lousy.    Before _launch I only had one that worked.
           On rrry right-hand glove one of the bulbs obviously

           didn't work.     One of them did work.     On rrry left­

           hand glove the switch on the batteries would only
           turn the lights on if it was in one exact position,

           vh.ich wasn't full throw in either direction.        So I
           found out I had only one fingertip light that

           worked.    However, during the flight I didn't use

           my' fingertip lights except one time when I used ·

--- PAGE 30 ---
24



     them for a flashlight. I had my gl oves off and I

     reached over and got my gloves and turned the

     fingertip lights on and shined the gloves on some­

     thing .   I didn't use them a lot .     I do want to

     comment on one thing , though , since we ' re talking

     about the suits here .       I launched without the plug

     that goes in the blood pressure port in the suit .

     I don ' t feel we should launch these things with

     no plug to plug up the blood pressure port in the

     suit , especially when we ' re going EVA .    I think

     that was a mistake .       The only pressure points I had

     in the suit were in the helmet .       Those were just

     above my ears where I tended to move my head back
     and forth within the helmet.        I finally rubbed up

     a ll the hair so that it was going in the wrong

     direction .   When you press against hair for a long

     time in the wrong direction it becomes very uncom­

     forta ble.    At about the end of 2 3/4 days I took

     my helmet off for a couple of hours, and it felt a
     lot better.    The only problem is that when you have

     your helmet off there is no place to stow it.          We

     had the foot wells full of gear , so when I had the
     he lmet off I just let it float around on my lap ,

     and over in Ed' s l ap .    There wasn ' t any place to

--- PAGE 31 ---
25


        put it.    The micro-meteroid blanket that I had

        strapped under my right leg wasn't a detriment.
        As a matter of fact since we had no place to stow
        it , I just left it strapped to my leg until reentry.
        Then, I felt that if we had to get out in the water
        I didn't want to have any straps hanging off me
        that I didn't need.     So, I took it off and threw
        it on the floor a long with Ed's sleeves .    I don't
        have anymore comments on my suit .

White   I wore the ENA suit .    I think the mobility of the

        suit was about what I had expected.     Actually, I
        think the mobility in some respects was a little
        better, and in some respects it was a little less
        than I had expected. I wasn't able to get into the
        right-hand aft food box as well as I had thought
        I was going to be able to in zero g. In fact, the
        position that I had figured out to use, which was
        leaning forward and reaching in backwards with my
        left arm , didn ' t work out well at all.    I had to
        actually turn around 90 degrees in the seat and
        reach in with my right arm.     This worked out all
        right.     I was able to get hold of things in the
        box.     The surprise that I got though , was that I
        could get into the right- hand aft refuse box much

--- PAGE 32 ---
26



                easier than I had thought I ' d ever be able to .          It

                turned out t ra t I was able to get into that box

                ea sier while in orbit, by far, t han--
     McDivitt   It ' s a rubber covered box.

     White      It's a rubber covered box on the right hand side .

                I think that box does have the capability of s tow­

                ing refuse in it and stowi ng some things prior to

                l aunch in it , too .

     White      Did you try that box during flight , Jim?

     McDivitt   Yes , I did.   I didn ' t find it easy to get into .

                I thought the things we had stowed in it wer e

                real good things--items that we didn ' t need at all

                in flight and possibly might not need--
     White      I used all four defecation bags        that I h~d on my

                side .   I used them up during flight .      In fact , you
                used one of them .
     McDivitt   That ' s right , we did have a bag of those defe ca­

                tion bags out .    It just happened to be over on my
                side where you could get to it.
     White      You were asleep.        I had to get them or wake you up .

                I pres sure- checked rey suit .    I checked it at 8 . 5

                and it bled down several tenths of a psi .        I was

                satisfied with the pr es sure-holding of rey suit .

--- PAGE 33 ---
27

There was one thing though with the suit that I

wasn't too happy with.     I was hot all the time

in the suit.   It got so that after a while I got

used to the normal temperature as being warm.

I could incr ease the temperature , which seemed

rather strange to both Jim and me, by putting out

zey gloves and closing zey faceplate .     I could go

to sleep.   At that time zey temperature would go

up considerably inside the suit .     It seemed like

I coul d stay in there only an hour or an hour and

15 minutes and rest before I had to either open

up the faceplate or do something else.        So, the
temperature got uncomfortably warm in about an

hour or an hour and fifteen minutes with the face­
plate closed, the sleeves on and the gloves on .

The humidity in the suit, I thought , was quite

dry.   I had quite a tendency for zey lips to crack

and nzy- nose to get very dry .   In fact, I noticed
zey nose was itching considerably.       This was an

indicator to me every time I would go to sleep.

I would wake up with zey nose itching and feeling

quite hot and uncomfortable.      }zy- lips got to the

point where I thought they were going to crack,

--- PAGE 34 ---
28


     and I was trying to be very careful and keep them

     from cracking and getting anymore uncomfortabl e

     than they were .    Jim mentioned the CO
                                            sensors
                                          2
     stayed on zero, which I was happy to see . I

     think one thing that I was fairly happy about was

     that the suit , as bulky as it was , wasn ' t depres­

     singly uncomfortable.     I felt that I did have a

     pretty heavy suit on most of the time , and I was
     a little bit constrained in my mobility.      The

     i dea to have the detachable sleeves that I could

     take off after the EVA work was , I felt, a very
     good decision.     I felt much more comfortable ,

     and I had a much higher degree of mobility around

     with my arms in the spacecraft.     It was not as

     tiring to move around as it had been when I was
     inside the heavy sleeves .    So , I was quite happy

     to take them off.    We took them off, I believe,
     shortly after my first sleep.     I slept with t hem

     on the first time, and then we took them off .      I

     think they were quite easy to take off.     As a

     matter of fact, I think if you went EVA at a

     later time you could take those sleeves onboard ,
     and if they were made just a little aasier to

     slip on and off over the wrist, you could take
     @e 14    rte Et<4,t,\ t

--- PAGE 35 ---
29


           them on and off in flight if you wanted to.

McDivitt   I don ' t know.    I'd hesitate to recommend putting

           them on in flight .     It might get pretty tricky.

           I think if you put them on in flight , you'd want

           to put them over all the harness, rather than

           i.mder the harness.

White      That ' s exactly what I was going to sey.       I think

           if you took the life preservers off , you could

           actually make the sleeves big enough so that you

           could slip them on and velcro them across the

           back over the harness.       This might be for the
           type of operation of throwing equipment in and

           out .     I think in the future , though , a suit as
           heavy as this might not be required.         The controls

           and the switches in the suit , I felt , were satis­

           factory.      There wasn ' t anything that I couldn ' t
           get at in the spacecraft .       It was easier under

           weightless conditions for me to operate certain

           controls. In fact, I think I was able to get

           down and unscrew the bellows in the gun hose as
           well and maybe a little easier than you could,

           Jim .     At least initially, I was able to get down

           there .     Of course you weren ' t really particularly
           trying to do it at that time.

             @8 ~ •••i-EM-liaJ.;;

--- PAGE 36 ---
30


     McDivitt   I suspect I probably could have gotten down there

                as easy or easier than you if I had really gotten

                around to trying.

     White      I don ' t remember , but , anyhow, I was surprised

                with the ease which I had in getting down .

     McDivitt   We were trying to dump the pressure in the bellow

                before we went EVA with it .

     White      Right .     The demand regulator was satisfactory.     Ivzy­

                umbilical,I thought,was very easy to use and

                disconnect .     I was quite happy to have the micro­

                dot in there.      One comment on the micro-dot--the

                first time we exercised the micro- dots on our
                suit , they were pretty hard to operate .     Mine got

                progressively easier to use each time I used it .

                The fingertip lights that I had were better than
                Jim ' s .   I ha:l lights with Lexan tops on them .

                All my lights worked, and r felt that their

                operation was quite satisfactory.       We had decided

                to put my lights between the first and second
                joints for several reasons .      We thought the EVA

                gloves would be easier to don and there'd be less
                tendency to break them.      I think, though, the

                position of the lights was still a little too far
                forward if it was intended to put them back between

--- PAGE 37 ---
31



           the first and second joints, because the lights

           were resting right on top of my first joint .           I

           think if I had worn my gloves anymore, I would

           have gotten a very sore first knuckle .        If you

           are going to move them back, I think they should

           definitely be moved back behind the first knuckle.

McDivitt   Where were they getting you, .fili?

White      Right on the top of the knuckle .

McDivitt   You think they ought to be back?

White      If they are going to be anywhere, they ought to be

           back here, and I'm not too sure that is necessary.

           In fact, I think the best place is behind the
           fingertip and in front of the first joint .

McDivitt   But, with the pl astic covers over the gloves.

White      With the plastic cover on the glove , and I think

           we've got the right position for the lights .           I

           don't think they should be back behind the first

           knuckle .   I think they should be in front of that
           first knuckle and behind the fingertip,         That's a

           good place for them .      That's where we've been using

           them in the past.    I think thf'     Le::mn   cover
           on the light bulb is a darn good idea ,
McDivitt   Yes, I think so.,. too .    Shoot!   I checked my lights
           before launch and found out that I already had one

--- PAGE 38 ---
32


             of them out on my right hand.       I wasn ' t too happy

             about it .

     White   I was a li ttle disappointed.      I think the only

             discrepancy I found in my suit was that I had no

             blood pressure plug either.      A point that I was

             pretty happy with was that I had no pressure points

             from my suit at all on my body .      I had one set of

             pressure points from my helmet pressing down on the

             front forward part of my head.       I lmew why this

             was .   I 'd had Joe Schmitt adjust my cables so that
             I could pull my helmet down to a maximum amount

             for the EVA work.      I felt that I just bought this

             discomfort by having my cables adjusted in this
             manner.      It was pretty uncomfortable though . I

             checked out the use of the emergency bottles on
             the EVA equipment and they worked as they were

             supposed to .     I was able to regulate the flow.

             Incidently , before I went out the reading on the

             EVA bottles was full-scale, 3400 pounds . I was
             happy to see that .    Al l in all, I was quite happy

             with the suit .     I think it was a very well designed

             suit and it met the requirements that were levied
             upon it . It was a heavy suit and a big suit to
             wear for four days, but I felt the auit wasn ' t as

              € ~~f-~ L

--- PAGE 39 ---
33

bad as I had expected it was going to be.

I have one more comment.    I'd like to comment on

the inner liner.   We decided to go with the inner

liner. in and I felt this was a good decision .

The inside of the suit was comfortable , and I

didn ' t get any pressure points .    I think one reason

why neither Jim nor I got any particular pressure

points from the suit was that we had worn these

suits a heck of a lot of time .      I had over 50

hours on my flight suit.    I don't know how many

hours Jim had on his.

--- PAGE 40 ---
34




     McDivitt   Actually Ed had just finished talking about his

                inner liner .       I 1 d like to comment about the inner

                liner too .       I thought about it when he was talking

                about his .       I think that was one of the reall y

                wi se decisions •- to go with that inner l iner .

                I felt that it offered a lot more comfort than

                wearing that rubber suit up against my body, or
                up against my underwear .        I sort of felt that I

                was really quite comfortable in this suit .           I
                didn ' t find my mobility limited by my inner l iner

                at all , and I had made sure that it fit .          I think

                that has a l ot to do with it.

     White      I worked the suit once for about a four-'hour
                period with just the rubber ins i de .        I    did no-
                tice it sticking to me, and I didn ' t feel as com­

                fortable .       After I got inside the suit with pres­

                sure on my body , the suit felt pretty darn good.

                I had the knees cut out of my suits .         The knees

                are still too short .        Having been in it for four

                days , I know the dimensions are wrong .          The di­

                mension from my knee down to my foot is not long

                enough .       I t ' s not just the inner line~ but the
                           f¥18~4AL
                           1                        ·~

--- PAGE 41 ---
35


             link net in itself just isn't long enough.

McDivitt     You wouldn ' t say you had a pressure point though?
White        No, it was just a constant pull on there all the
             time.

McDivitt     Did it bother you very much during the flight?

White        Yes, it bothered me a little bit .
McDivit-'-   So you really did have sort of a pressure point
             then?

             Yes, to some extent in that area .     I had had that

             one so much before. It had been so extreme in
             some cases that it really didn't bother me too
             much .
White        Both of us should mention something about the
             visors .
McDivitt     I thought you ought to mention something about
             your visor problem,      your EVA visor or the other

             one.
White        Well, I have briefed the visor on the EVA pretty

             well.      The one that I will mention now is the

             visor that I had on my regular helmet .    I thought

             that the vision through it was quite good .    I

             noticed no distortion at all through it, but I

             did immediately put a couple big scratches on it

--- PAGE 42 ---
in the beginning when I was unstowing equipment .

           I continued to scratch it throughout the mission.

           When I finished , the visor was considerably

           scratched up as you would pr obably notice if

           you looked at my suit .    I don ' t know what there is

           to do about this other than to accept a scratchy
           visor .

McDivitt   If you ' ve got the visors down in front of your

           face, you don ' t tend to scratch it up as much .

           I think it was really worn out because you
           started opening up your visor and leaving it up

           over your head a lot earlier than I did.       At about
           the two and a half or three day mark , I looked at

           your visor and it was really a mess .      I took the

           helmet off and cleaned the visor because it was

           dirty on the inside and the outside .      I looked at
           my visor and had very few marks on it .      I had a

           few l ittle scratches , but very minor .   Then I

           started putting my vi sor up more and mor e be-

           cause t hey wanted us to stay open .    Because I ' m

           a lot taller than you are, I really started beat­

           i ng mine up .   In the last day, I think I caught

           up with you and maybe even surpassed you in the

--- PAGE 43 ---
37


           amount of marks on it .      I'll say another thing .

           I'm sure glad we didn ' t go in for those Lexan

           visors that they wanted us to fly with, cause the

           distortion woul d have driven me batty in about

           the first six hours .

White      I think you must insist on perfect l y optically

           clear visors .

McDivitt   That ' s right .   You 've got to have good optics .

White      I took my helmet off about three times , and I

           didn ' t leave it off very long.

McDivitt   I took mine off about two times .       I took it off

           one time for an hour because my hair right above

           my ears was really bothering me .       I didn ' t bother

           getting a light- weight headset out , and when any­

           body called me , I had the thing sitting in my

           l ap and I could hear it .     I took one of the • ~ . ~
           and pulled it back and I hollered into the mike,

            Ha , ha. ! 1 till I could hear it .   I s~id , "I ' ve got
           my hel met off .   Unless you 've got something im­

           portant to tell me , don't bother me ." .Ha , ~a!

           And he said, "Okay . "    It was one of those passes ,
           you know , where you only talk to one guy for about

           an hour .   Then I took it off one other time for

           about a half hour to rub my ears .       I was quite
           s€0►~ ~t8l!lttfif1Aif:r:



                                                                         J

--- PAGE 44 ---
comfortable with my helmet on for two days.

White      Do you want to know something that ' s kind of

           strange?      I was more comfortable with my helmet

           on than off.      I n fact, I kind of got used to

           those pressure points on the top of my head with

           the helmet on .    When I took the helmet off and

           moved my head around , I felt a little dizzy from

           not having these restraints.      I didn ' t feel as

           comfort able as I did with my helmet on.      The times

           I had my helmet off were when I was running D-9.
           I ran the D-9 Experiment several times with my

           helmet off so I'd have better use of my sextant .
           I took it off one other time near the end when

           they indicated they would like to have every-

           thing off .    I didn ' t feel particularly comforta­
           ble with my helmet off any more.      I got so us ed

           to having that thing on that I put it on so I

           could talk better with the stations .     They were

           calling me from time to time , and I thought it

           would be a little better.      Before I forget, I
           think the portable headset is really a lousy

           design .
McDivitt   I concur.     I think it ought to be thrown out .


                                           -

--- PAGE 45 ---
39


White      I've seen the ones they've got in the MCC and

           they're good plain old headsets.     I don't see

           any reason why we can't get one that stays on

           your head and stays in your ear .    You put this

           thing on and it pops off about two minutes later .

           It's not built to stay on my size head and I

           noticed it didn't stay on Jim's very well eit~er .

           I think the portable headset idea is a good

           idea, but we ought to have a good headset for

           it .   Okay.   As we mentioned earlier the cabi n
           pressure relieved at about 5. 5 and held that

           way during launch .    It went back down to 4.9

           or 4.8 and this is where it stayed for the re­

           mainder of the mission.     I think that they prob­

           ably overshot their zeal to correct the cabin

           pressure that John and Gus had had on GT-3 and

           put ours down so that it was actually relieving
           lower and sealing lower than it would have been

           desirable.     I was expecting it to seal up around

           5.5 or 5.7 like it was advertised.
McDivitt   I checked my suit gage against the cabin pres­

           sure    g-age and my suit €8,ge read higher than:

           the cabin pressure     gage by about .3 of a pound.

--- PAGE 46 ---
40


     White      Yes, mine was right on it though .

     McDivitt   I know .     You checked your suit gage   against

                the cabin pressure and yours read just about on

                it, didn ' t it?    Was it a tenth of a pound higher

                or was it right on it?

     White      Right on .

     McDivitt   Okay .     So mine was reading a little higher,

                indicating to me that possibly the cabin pres­

                sure was higher .     But since Ed's read with it,

                I don ' t know where we were .
     White      Well, the pr essure at which it relieved at went

                right into the problem of the temperature- pres ­

                sure relief in the cryogenic oxygen system so

                t hat those two problems kind of lashed together .

                The venting in the o system was set at around
                                    2
                970 .
     McDivitt   967, I think the poop sheet said.
     White      Well , it was about 967 or 970 .    We had the pos­
                sibility of losing oxygen in a steady manner

                out of the spacecraft if we let the pressure

                rise up above- -well , the ground felt 960 , and
                I concurred with that figure .     So throughout

                the flight we had to keep venting our o system
                                                       2

--- PAGE 47 ---
41



           down so the pressure woul d remai n down below

           960 . They initially told us to vent it to keep
           it at 930 to 960 .   Then they told us to vent it

           on down to about 890.    From then on, we vented

           it down in the neighborhood of between 890 and

           93, depending upon who was asleep and who wasn't
           asleep .   It sure seemed to be an unsatisfactory

           solution to two problems--one of the cabin hold­

           ing at a higher pressure than they wanted it to

           on GT- 3 and also the problem of the o system
                                                 2
           venting outside of the pressure gage . In the

           oxygen system I think the solution to putting

           the venting down at 967 was a poor solution to

           the problem of having a poorly designed ga ge .
           I think the gage was agai n poorly designed and

           it should be designed to read about 1200 pounds.

           Rel ief should be up in that area .
McDivitt   I f they really went ahead and jacked down the
           relief pressure, to get it on the gage, I think

           that is one heck of an approach to an engineer­
           ing problem.
White      I think that ' s a gross thing to do and if they

           did that deliberatel y, I thi nk they deserve a

--- PAGE 48 ---
42




                very black star for that one.

     McDivitt   They need their heads examined t

     White      I guess we beat that one around pretty well,

                didn 't we?

     McDivitt   Yes~     The way that we were venting the cabin

                was by going to o High Rate and venting the
                                 2
                oxygen out through the cabin vent or going to

                cabin repress and using up the oxygen through

                the cabin and through the cabin vent valve

                that way.
     White      I was quite satisfied with the cabin temperature .

                It started out and got pretty hot at one time

                early in the flight and went up to 100 as you

                noted,and then it went back down into the 80 's.

                I think it actually dropped into the 70's a time
                or two.
     McDivitt   That ' s right.   It was in the 70's most of the

                time .

     White      Right.

     McDivitt   Let's get the data book ,    The dry bulb tempera­

                ture was 80; 80, the first time we tood it.

                Then it was 79, 79, 79.     Then it was 75, 75,
                75, and then they stayed between 75 and 77,I


                OQ\il I i ~ L

--- PAGE 49 ---
think, .the rest of the flight .   No, here it is

           down as low as 72 .     So it got down to around

           72 late in the flight, and here we are with a

           whole bunch of 70's to 73's and a couple of 76 1 s.

           So I guess that 75 was the average temperature
           throughout the whole flight.

White      I think our cabin temperature gage was reflect­

           ing a little higher temperature than these.
McDivitt   No, let's see .     It was down around 75.

White      It went down to 74 at one time, I remember.
McDivitt   Yes, I think 75 was a good average cabin temp­
           erature for the whole flight.

White      I thought this was a pretty satisfactory cabin

           temperature.      The suit temperatures were also

           down.   They stayed down from about 52 to 54
           most of the· flight.    I thought that was a pretty

           satisfactory temperature there.      I believe that

           there was a difference in suit temperatures be­

           tween Jim and me because I was continually
           hollering about being hot.      I think that temp­

           erature-wise Jim was relatively comfortable .
McDivitt   I was vecy comfortable, and as a matter of fact,
           when I went to sleep, I tended to get just a

--- PAGE 50 ---
44


                 little bit cool , especially if I had urinated
                 all over myself.
     White       I don ' t remember one time during the flight

                 during which I was cool in the suit .     I think

                 I was hot most of the time in the suit .     I got

                 used to i t after a while.    The only time that

                 it was not satisfactory, as far as I was con­

                 cerned, was when I was trying to sleep.      The

                 humidity data that we got doesn't go along with

                 what everybody was expecting.
     McDivitt    No, not by a l ong shot .
     White       No, not at all .   Our l i tt le gage seemed like
                 it was working properly.     We didn ' t have any

                 visible moisture at any time at any pl ace in

                 the spacecraft .   It seemed to be indicating

                 down around 62 to 63 percent     relative humidity

                 which was a big surprise to myself.      With this

                 type of data , I began going open faceplate and

                 open gloves fairly early in the flight, about
                 a day or a day and a half, and continued in this

                 manner just about throughout the flight .     We

                 used the wrist dams quite a bit of the time .
                 But I had my faceplate open with my wrist dams '


                CiO t ◄ F10E._ffd +b

--- PAGE 51 ---
on a great deal of time also.       I think you had

               your faceplate closed a little more than I

               did .   There at the end we were both going to an

               open-faceplate and open- gloves all the way .
'
    McDivitt   Yes, we were especially going open-faceplate

               at the end just to see if we could jack up

               the humidity.    I actually preferred to have

               my faceplate closed, as opposed to having it open.

               I went ahead and left it open trying to get
               the humidity up . We never really did get it
               up over 60 perc ent.    That seemed to be where

               it was going to stay.

    White      We were happy to see that the CO sensor
                                              2
               gage stayed down low the whole flight . It

               would pop up any time we turned the o High ·
                                                    2
               Rate on and go up to a pretty high reading,

               and then settle back down to zero.      I didn't

               notice any particular discomfort versus day

               versus night .

    McDivitt   No, as a matter of fact, I didn't either.       We

               took some temperature readings on the cabin

               window frame and they varied by about 6 or
               8 , 10 degrees at the very most .

--- PAGE 52 ---
White      Yes, I don ' t think there was any discomfort

           associated with the day-night cycle.    We didn't

           use the cabin fan as we planned during the

           flight.   We did neglect to turn it on initially
                                                               .,
           during the preparation for retro.    We noticed

           that we weren ' t cooling off in the cabin as

           much as we would have liked to .    So, we turned

           the fan on and immediately the temperature

           dropped down about 10 degrees,if I remember

           right .

McDivitt   Yes , that cabin heat exchanger and that cabin

           fan really do the job.

White      It really cooled it off.

McDivitt   Early in the flight when we got the tempera­

           ture up to 100, we turned the fan on and the

           temperature went down to below 80 in about

           20 minutes, or so.    It really did the trick .

White      The cabin pressure relief valve was venting
           just a hair abouve 5.4.    We checked this out

           very many times.     Every time we filled the
           cabin up with o High Rate, it vented,or if
                          2
           we used the repress l•ever the cabin would

           vent .

--- PAGE 53 ---
'3@>rNfff) EttlIM:·                                 47


    McDivitt     Here we had an environmental control system

                 that was supposed to protect us .     We found

                 out that the darn thing was overpressurizing.
f                The first couple of times, to keep the ECS o
                                                             2
                 bottle from venting, we vented the cabin it­

                 self .    I found myself sitting in there vent­

                 ing this thing with my gloves off and my face

                 plate open.      It began to dawn on me that the

                 pressure went down inside the cabin at a tre­

                 mendous rate.      If this thing ever stuck open
                 and I had my gloves off and my faceplate open,

                 I would be a dead man .     So we made it a proce­
                 dure to suit up when we were going to dump

                 this thing .     This meant that every four hours

                 we had to put our gloves on and put our face­

                 plates down and lock them and get all suited

                 up just in case this vent valve didn ' t reseat.

                 Frankly, as much of an inconvenience as it

                 turned out to be, I think that was a wise

                 maneuver.      I would never suggest that anyone
                 vent that cabin again without being fully suit­

                 ed.      I thi nk there is such a risk involved

                 that you would be fool- hearty to do it .    For

--- PAGE 54 ---
48              GO~ ifli itl..l,tct 0

                   that reason I think that we ought to make an

                   effort to get the ECS o tank vent and the
                                            2
                  ECS o tank pressure gage compatible and at
                        2
                   a l ot higher pressure than they are.    This
                                                                      '
                   suiting up and unsuiting every four hours is

                   for the birds.

     White         I thoroughly agree with you, Jim. There are
                   two things I want to know.     I want to know if

                   they deliberately lowered the venting pressure

                   for the o system down to 967 to solve the
                            2
                   problem on GT-3.     I would also like to know
                   if they deliberately lowered the cabin venting

                   down to 5.4 .    I'd like to know the answer to
                   those two questions.     I think the combination

                   of those two situations make what I feel is an

                   unsatisfactory situation in our flight.     It

                   occupied far more time--

     McDivitt      That's right, we were screwing around with
                   that ECS o .     That's something we never had
                                2
                   touched.     It was a eage   that we should have
                   monitored, instead of a thing that we manipu­

                   lated all the time.

     White         Right,     Okay, the cabin pressure regulator.

--- PAGE 55 ---
49


           I didn't have any comment on that.

McDivitt   Neither did I.    It seemed to be doing a good

           job .

White      I felt the cabin vent valve was set lower

           than I had thought it was going to be .     I

           thought it was supposed to be set up around

           5.7. I'd like to know if it was cha.l'lged in­
           tentionally.

McDivitt   The manual vent valve worked fine.     When we

           wanted to vent the cabin, it vented.

White      The cabin repressurization valve worked fine .

           I was very happy to see how well it worked

           also with my chest pack.     Any comment on that?

McDivitt   No, I don ' t think so .   I don't think the cabin

           repressurized or overpressurized when we were

           trying to vent it.     Since you were repres­
           surizing it and venting it at the same time,

           I think the vent valve actually overcame the
           repressurization,which is a good thing if

           you're trying to vent it, and it is not a good

           thing if you're trying to keep it from venting.

           Going back a little farther to my other state­

           ment, in case that vent valve sticks open

--- PAGE 56 ---
50



                and you are not suited,I don't think you're

                goi ng to have time to get suited .    I t takes

                me too long to put those gloves on.

     White      Okay, the cabin air inlet valve worked fine .

                We vented the cabin with it when we went EVA.

                It apparently worked all right when we used

                it down on the water.      I rave no further com­

                ment on that.

     McDivitt   Neither do I.     It seemed to work fine .

     White      The cabin air recirculation valve worked as

                it was supposed to .

     McDivitt   As advertised .

     White      Okay , that primary o system gets another
                                     2
                black star. I think this is the area that I

                want to know the answer to , for sure .      I want

                to know whether that was deliberately set
                down into the range of the gage       to solve the

                complaint on Gemini 3.      I think that if this

                was the case, this is a prime example of poor

                engineering.      As far as monitoring the system

                though, as long as their reading was down be­

                low 960 the system worked pretty well.        I
                felt fairly confident that the pressure wae-

--- PAGE 57 ---
51



McDivitt     That ' s right .    The way that the thing was set

             up , we could sure monitor it because we knew

             it was going to vent without being on the

             gage .    I think they compromised the whole

             system so we could monitor it .

White        As a matter of fact, we monitored it very

             thoroughly and spent about 100 times as much

             time on t his SJs t em as we should have .    John

             Young ' s been complaining about this point,

             and I think that it ' s a very poor thing .      They

             ought to dig up the money and put a gage         in

             there that will do the job .       Very strong

             point .   The quantity measuring system,I thought,

             was all right.
McDivitt     I thought it was pretty good .       I thought it
             was excellent as a matter of fact .       It was a

             very readable gage ,.       It had tremendous scal e

             on it, but, shoot, you could read the thing to

             a percent .        I don't know why it was a:ny more
             readable than the other ones, but I thought it

             was pretty good.

White        The flow rates--I don't have a:ny particular

             comment on that .       I thought the flow rate on


           N4sl-f.1Dfl~T1Aw

--- PAGE 58 ---
52
                    ..
                that repress valve into my suit was satisfactory

                to keep me in a pressurized state and keep me

                venti lated enough under normal operations .

                Under tough operations though, the flow rate's

                too low and you really heat up.

     McDivitt   Yes, I think since it was an open loop system,

                you had to keep from dumping all the oxygen

                overboard, and had to go high enough to keep

                it from dying from the heat.    I think it was

                a compromise system.
     White      I thought it was well set up,      I have no com­

                plaints there .   Primary o temperature--I didn't
                                           2
                have any comment on that.

     McDivitt   No, neither did I.

     White      The manual heater--I think that you used the

                manual heater twice during EVA .

     McDivitt   Twice during EVA for about five to six minutes

                each time .   It responded all right , but it didn't

                go overboard,     It got the temperature right back

                up there, and I shut the thing off again.




                I\!0 ~~FIDE~iilA L

--- PAGE 59 ---
53
                                     •

White      We were able to turn the automatic part of it

           off quite early in the flight , particularly

           since this was the problem we were having .

           We were getting--

McDivitt   That was something I wondered about .     You

           know , the t hing is marked , and we were always

           instructed that when the thing got down below

           38 percent     we didn ' t need the heaters any

           more .    We shut the heaters off at 42 percent .

White      Right .

McDivitt   0bviously,the guy that told us to shut the

           heaters off at 40 percent      knew what he was
           talking about because we never needed them

           again .

White      I think, again , I am very suspicious of McDonnell
           on the fix on that gage, and on setting that

           pressure on 970 , and I'm going to get to the

           bottom of it .

McDivitt   Yes , but I think, though,that the pressure
           would have still built up even if we had the

           relief set at 1050 or so.      It would have still

           built up .

White      It might have built up and stabili zed,

                                     •

--- PAGE 60 ---
54



                  because it ' s a cryogenic system and it could have

                  stabilized out around 1000 or 1050.

     McDivitt     But on the other hand it could have continued to

                  build right on up .

     White        Su.re it could .

     McDivitt     But I sort of suspect that the--well, I don't know.

                  It's different from this other problem where we

                  were told that the thing didn't require heaters

                  below 38 percent , and we found out that it really

                  didn ' t require 'them below 42 percent .
     White        We turned them off at 42 percent .

     McDivitt     Right .

     White        The secondary o system--I thought those performed
                                 2
                  admirably. In_fact, they had more oxygen in them
                  than I thought they could hold.      Jim ' s was up to

                  around 5500 pounds shortly after launch .      It re­

                  mained up there and drizzled out about 100 pounds

                  throughout the flight .
     1'1cDivitt   Actually they increased by 100 psi each right after

                  launch .

     White        Right at the first mode of flight .     Then they

                  drizzled back down and stayed at 5400, I think,

                  right on down through the flight .     The lowest

--- PAGE 61 ---
55


           mine got was about 5250 maybe .

McDivitt   Did you notice by chance what they were at land­

           ing?

White      No, I didn ' t check them .

McDivitt   Neither did I.

White      That was the last thing I had on my mind , to tell

           the truth.     I thought the quantity measuring was

           fine .   It was a little questionable, that we might

           have overpressurized on your system, but I guess

           they had plenty of margin in that respect . The
           secondary o flow rates were satisf actory as far
                      2
           as I was concerned.

McDivitt   I think so . I was amazed that secondary o flow
                                                       2
           was such that I really didn ' t get too hot in i t .

White      Yes, I was not as uncomfortable as I had been at
           other times.

McDivitt   You know, after awhile· you hit yourself in the

           head so long that it finally stops hurting.

White      It ' s like that big heavy suit, after awhile you

           begin to feel good .    I know the average guy on

           the street probably wouldn't like the flow rate,

           but it didn't seem to be too bad.     It wasn ' t too

           objectionable .

--- PAGE 62 ---
56


     White      I think we jumped into something else .            We were

                in secondary o system and we weren ' t on flow
                                  2
                rate.      The only time we had the flow rate on that

                was during reentry.         The flow rate there was sat­

                isfactory .     The pressure obviously was satisfac­

                tory, but we didn't check it at the end .            The

                control--r.de put an extra detent on that control.

                I think the control was a positive one and we

                were able to keep it in the detents where we

                wanted it .     I had no p~oblem there.
     McDivitt   Right, I think that the way it's rigged up now

                is excellent.         We designed it .   It had better be,

                ha., ha!

     White      Right .     Okay, the CO       partial pressure.    The gage
                                           2
                has been discussed prior to this time.It stayed

                down satisfactorily.

     McDivitt   Yes, it never got off zero.

     White      Okay, the coolant- the radiator operation config-

                uration--I       don't have the times in front of me

                right now that we went onto           the radiator, but I

                think it was about 40 minutes.

     McDivitt   40 minutes.

     White      We went on the radiator about 40 minutes and we

--- PAGE 63 ---
never had to come off it again .     We didn ' t get

           any abnormal operation of the radiator at any time .

           One time they called up to me and mentioned some­

           thing about the radiator and the coolant loop and

           I didn ' t get any clarification .   I lost contact

           at that time , and I thought just maybe that I

           had a failure of some type in my primary cooling

           system .   So just for caution sake I turned on the

           secondary coolant pump and waited till I got con­

           tact with them again.      They asked me why I had the

           secondary pump on , and I said , "I thought maybe
           I had a problem in the primary system ."     They

           asked me why I thought that and I said , "I thought

           they were telling me something about it when I

           lost contact with them .    I did it just to be sure ."

           But that was the only time that I thought we even

           might have had a problem in it , and I turned it
           off .   We used double coolant loop early in the

           mission,and after we turned the secondary system

           off we did not use it a.gain until the teentry .
           Prior to the reentry , we turned it on .
McDivitt   That's right .   That coolant system real ly worked.
White      Okay , here is one at which we'll get at them--

--- PAGE 64 ---
58



                the water management system.          I think you have

                a few thousand words you'd like to say about

                launch.       I think you actually already hit on most
                of them, anyhow .
     McDivitt   Man, I sure do.        The l'brmal mode , Drink Mode, and
                Flush Mode .        We got the water management thing

                kind of goofed up.         Let's just take the drinking
                thing first.        The drinking nozzle was attached to

                the management panel by a hose and the hose looked

                like it was made out of rotten rubber .        The
                first time I tried to drink out of it , I stuck

                the thing into my mouth--
     White      The first bad moment of the f l ight .
     McDivitt   --I pushed the button in and no water came out ,
                ~d I almost had a heart attack.          I said to Ed ,
                "Ed, this is going to be the shortest four day
                flight in history. "        Ha, ha!

     White      Jim said, "Guess what? · The water doesn ' t work."
     McDivitt    Ha, j{.a !   But you ' d already had a drink out of it ,
                though , hadn ' t you?
     White      No , I hadn ' t .
     McDivitt   Oh , hadn ' t you?
     White      You handed it to me.

--- PAGE 65 ---
eeJmrDEMffM                                          59


McDivitt   Oh, so I handed it over to him and then he took a

           drink out of it and didn ' t have any problem at all .

           What happened was the hose was wound in the helix .

           It came out to the gun in a straight line .   When

           I drank out of it on my side this thing always

           crimped like it was an old rotten piece of rubber

           that had been bent over in that position many

           times before.    It looked like something that came

           out of a 1890 steamboat or something, instead of

           a--
White      It looks like your old oxygen mask hose.

McDivitt   That's right.    It looks like my old rotten oxygen
           mask hose .   So I think that we ought to get at

           least a decent piece of hose in there. The next

           thing is the water gun that you drink from.    You

           push the button in and a little spigot would come

           out and the wat er would start running out of it .

           This worked great.    You could always get the wa­

           ter to come out when you didn 't have your hose

           bent.   It got worse and worse and worse and worse

           and worse .   As far as returning it towards the

           end of the flight , I almost drowned a couple of

           times because I ' d get that thing out and I couldn't

--- PAGE 66 ---
60               @ONFl0Et'4Tl=At

                get it back in.     I finally ended up actually using

                two hands to operate the water gun so that I

                could get the button back out.
     White      The button definitely did get more friction in it
                as the flight progressed.
     McDivitt   It seemed like it was all scored up and it kept

                getting worse and worse and worse as the flight

                went on.     This could have been a major disaster

                too.     If we had that gun squirting water inside

                the spacecraft , you'd have had water all over the

                place.     I'll be the first to say that we made a

                real effort to keep the water out of the space­
                craft.     We wanted to get four days out of the

                flight.    I felt one of the major probierns would

                be the humidity in the spacecraft .    As it turned

                out, it wasn't a problem.    We didn't know it right

                off the bat and we were really concerned about the

                water.    The last thing I wanted to do was to have

                an open water nozzle running into the spacecraft .

                So I think that takes care of that .    I think the

                whole water management panel ought to be clarified

                before we fly GT-5.    We were arguing about what
                position the waste .Mmagement Switch was going to

                be in during the countdown to launch.    I think this i d
                 w@f'f Fto•Ef'IT trA L

--- PAGE 67 ---
61



           certainly not the time to be deciding what the

           heck the position these switches were going to be

           in.   We were always briefed that this thing would

           be in OFF.     We were going through the switch

           positions and they'd ask me to check in the count

           at. about T-45 minutes or so.

White      And I couldn ' t see that one .

McDivitt   You couldn ' t see that one and you asked me to look

           down at it .    I saw the thing was in EVAPORATOR,

           so I question the STC.     He checked around and they
           had a big flap about what position it was supposed

           to be in.      Pretty soon we got a call back and he

           said if I could get unstrapped and reach the thing,

           I ought to turn it over to OVERBOARD. • We thought

           it should have been in OFF.       They had it in EVAPOR­

           ATOR so we finally decided we ought to go to OVER­

           BOARD to keep the thing venting.       I was already

           strapped in the spacecraft .      I undid my shoulder

           harness and reached around in the spacecraft and

           flipped a little valve over to OVERBOARD where

           it should be and then got strapped.

White      You sure they didn ' t have you put it OFF?
McDivitt   No, we went to OVERBOARD .

--- PAGE 68 ---
62



     White      I remember they argued.        I thought they had it on

                EVAPORATOR firs t.

     McDivitt   It went from EVAPORATOR--

     White      That seems like the least likely of any position

                to put it in .

     McDivitt   That ' s right.      We went from EVAPORATOR over to

                OVERBOARD.        So I think a comment that I ' d like to

                make right now about the whole water management

                panel is that it's a simple thing.         It's got

                three !mobs and each !mob ' s only got three or

                four positions .       We had the ECS engineers at

                McDonnell give us a briefing on this simple water
                management panel.        We had about seven guys there

                with seven different versions of how it was de­

                signed, how it operated, and what the different

                positions we were supposed to be in.         They got us

                so screwed up that when we left ther e we didn ' t

                have any idea in the world whatit was supposed to

                do.

     White      I think those designers didn ' t either.

     McDivitt   They didn ' t either and it was pretty obvious that
                they didn ' t .     We went through a lot of discussion

                with that water management panel.         Finally I think

--- PAGE 69 ---
that the four of us got it pretty well squared

        away.    Then just before launch we found out down

        at the Cape that because they had gotten those

        switches in the wrong position we pumped 32

        pounds of water out of the adapter , used up all

        the pressurant for the water system, and pumped

        all the water into the lithium hydroxide canj.,3ter.

        If it hadn't been for one last minute check in

        the data, we would have lost the lithium hydrox­

        ide canister full of water and nothing to drink

        with.    So we would have had about an hour flight,

        if we had gone that long.    I think that before
        we fly another flight we ought to have all the

        people at McDonnell and NASA, who are · respons-ible

        for this thing get it squared away and figure out

        just where the heck they want these switch posi­

        tions.and get them there.    If there are a lot of

        switch positions on that panel that aren't useful

        anymore, we should just go ahead and block them

        off.    We decided between the four of us that there

        were--I don't even know what they call those
        switches--
White   Condensate Valve and Water Valve.


                                              ..

--- PAGE 70 ---
McDivitt   --and the Water Valve should be put in NORMAL

           NORMAL.and left there.     That was ~xa.ctly what we

           did and we knew how to work the waste management

           valve.     We didn't screw it up, but I ' m not sure

           that if with a little trying, we couldn't have .

           We never had to use the Evaporator Fill Mode .

           The Flush Mode,or the waste ·management portion of

           the thing,had a couple of different positions .

           In the normal OVERBOARD position and in using

           the Preheat and Flush switch over on the side ,
           we managed to dump a large number of urine dumps
           through this.     We dumped both our launch- day

           urine bags which were full.     I probably urinated

           eight or ten times and you probably about five

           or six t i mes.

White      About five times .

McDivitt   About five times .    So we had a lot of dumps

           through this thing.     At 92 hours it stopped work­

           ing .    Ed had filled up the bellows pretty well

           just before this.     I was the man in charge of
           dumping urines, it seemed like .

White      The Urine Dumper!!!
McDivitt   I was the only one who could reach the knobs and

           swit ches .   It ~ nerally went down in spurts.
            ~8-M f'IDt=P,.ff IrA L

--- PAGE 71 ---
65



About haliwny       through the dump , it started

slowing down .    Then it just went in very slowly

the last two or three inches .     Then I urinated in

the thing and had a bellows full of a mixture of

air and urine .     It started dumping .   It looked

like it went down about halfway and then it

stopped .    I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it
wasn't the air going out of it.       It w.ent very

slowly for ju.st a short time and then it stopped

completely .     Nothing else would go out of it .      S~

I turned off the Flush Switch and I went from

OVERBOARD to EVAPORATOR,and it flushed through
the evaporator .     We had one more urine dump through

the evaporator and this worked all right .       Well,

I ' m sure glad that we had those two ways of work­

ing it .    All the way through the flight after I ' d

dumped the urine through this thing, I kept say­
   1
ing :w-ell , McDonnell finally designed this thing

so it works after about 30 or 40 attempts and
redesigns :' But I guess I was over-optimistic be­

cause it did drop out just before the flight .

It finally got to work for 88 hours .       We didn't
use the E~aporator Film Mode .      Okay, Ed, why don't

--- PAGE 72 ---
66


                you take over.     I extended my wrath .
     White      I just had a feeling you wanted to say something

                about that, Jim.     ~, ha!

     McDivitt   After having messed around with that thing for

                96 hours trying to make it work .
     White      I think you expressed my feeling too .
     McDivitt   Did I leave anything out?
     Whit e     No , no .   I had the same feelings .   I thought you

                might have had them a little stronger since you

                were the one who discovered the water gun was not
                working.

     McDivitt   I ' m really serious about that simple panel being

                able to screw up the whole flight.         If we don ' t
                get that thing figured out we ought to stop fly­

                ing space missions .

     Whi te     One of the worst moments of the prelaunch down

                there was when I found out they had that two

                gallons of water in the system somewhere and didn ' t
                know where it was.

     McDivitt   That's right .

     White      The humidity sensor--I thought if the readings

                are right, it worked very well and pr oved the

                point that the humidity in the spacecraft is

--- PAGE 73 ---
67


           relatively low•, and that the water problem is not

           quite the problem we had it cracked up to be .

           I ' ll make a comment on the sponge material on the

           s ide of the spacecraft at this point ,since we ' re

           talking about humidity .    I didn ' t think the sponge

           material was a very good idea to begin with but

           once it was in there and we flew with it, I think

           it was--

McDivitt   It was a real bad mistake!       Ha, h9. !

White      No, I thought it was all right in there . The only
           thing wrong with it was what they had it treated
           with for fire - proofing.   I thought that part of

           it was unpardonable .   There is no excuse whatso­

           ever for having those ammonia vapors and the hy­

           drogen sulfate ~or whatever those other things

           were that we had permeating around the spacecraft.

McDivitt   We smelled bad enough, but it was no contest when

           it came to comparing ourselves with the spacecraft .

           It smelled worse .

White      If there was any moisture it grabbed it all.       I
           don't really think there was any moisture for it

           to grab .

McDivitt   I don 1 t think so either, Ed.     I kept feeling that

--- PAGE 74 ---
68
                                     r1ecr,
                        thing and it was dry as could be .

          White         There was no moisture that I could notice .

                        'lhe sponge stuff on the side wasn ' t objectionable

                        to me but the odor that obviously came from it

                        was very , very objectionable .    The readings we

                        obtained I thought, were easy to take.       The stow­

                        age of the unit was not a problem.       It was easily

                        stowed in the spacecraft while we were using it .

8 , 5 Communicati ons

          White         Okay, I have a few comments on the communications
                        which we ought to go on to .     We ' ll take them in
                        sequence .

          McDivitt      Okay, why don ' t you go along I'll express my com­

                        ments .

          White         I think the interphones worked pretty wel l .     I

                        noticed one thing, though, as we progressed along.

                        lf'he volume requirement on both my side and on Jim ' s

                        side needed to be increased all the time to get -


          McDivitt      No , Ed .    I launched with all my volumes full up .

          White         Is that right?      Anyhow in my interphone , I pro­

                        gressively raised it as the f l ight went on .
          McDivitt      Yes , I started off with mine almost all the way
                        up .   On the UHF it was absolutel y all the way up ,
                         C04 4~t!li 1t6 L

--- PAGE 75 ---
69


           and I flew with it almost the whole flight .
White      I don't think it was all the way up.         The one

           thing though --I think the interphone operation
           and quality were quite good .
McDivitt   Yes, I thought so too .
White      We were ready to communicate back and forth.           It

           was just the way I would liked to have done it .

           I thought it was very good.         The UH performance at

           the countdown was satisfactory and just after we

           got into orbit we felt that we had a bit of a
           communication loss.       We switched to UHF No. 2.

           Later during the flight we used both UHF sets and

           didn't have any difference in performance from

           either one .      During the recovery you were using

           the UHF primarily.       I think you had as much com­
           munication as you could expect.
McDivitt   That ' s right.    I think so too.    I do think, though ,

           that we had a very bad UHF situation in the first

           eight or nine orbits.      It was really lousy.    As

           a matter of fact, I was getting concerned that

           maybe we were going to have to land because we

           were going to run out of communications .
White      You were actually working more on this problem

                                           b

--- PAGE 76 ---
70




                than I was.     You were communicating during the

                FNA work and also after I went to sleep.       I heard

                you working on the Communications Check and that's
                when you went to the reentry antenna.

     McDivitt   That's right, when we ran through these checks,

                it finally became apparent to everyone that the

                reentry antenna was doing a better job than the

                adapter .a ntenna.    And then later on, I switched

                back to the a dapter antenna for some reason which

                I can't remember right now.       We ran a couple of
                more checks and it seemed to be--
     White      I know what we did.     We ran an HF check , Jim, and
                we switched back to the a~apter so we could use

                the HF antenna back there .    We got just as good
                U1IF transmissions at this time as we did on the
                r.eentry a.ntenna .
     McDivitt   When they checked them out again, they said they

                still thought the stub antenna was better.      So, we
                went back to :reentry antenna .
     White      We used r .eentry just about 95 percent of the
                flight.
     McDivitt   That's right.    In the last 55 orbits it was great.
                In the first eight it was lousy.      I was really

--- PAGE 77 ---
71



            concerned about having to come down because we

            didn't have any radios .
White       One thing that I'd like to say is, I would give

            a good gold star to the controllers down there.

            I thought their voice procedures were excellent

            and their methods for giving us information were

            all good .   I had no comment , whatsoever, other

            than I thought it was all very good .
McJ)ivitt   That's right.

White       I had no objection . I thought there was no time
            in the flight in which we got a cluttered voice

            from anybody .     Yes, I think that is pretty good
            when you have that many people working the loop.
McDivitt    I think so too .
White       Okay, the voice tape recorder- -let me vent my
            wrath on this one.
McDivitt    Get ' em Ed, get 'em!
White       Right .   This is another thing that should be fixed
            before the next flight.      I think we're going to

            end up being very, very sorry.     We're going to

            end up losing valuable data from time to time .

            This will be due to no reason other than a voice

            tape recorder which is poO'r on all accounts.

--- PAGE 78 ---
72               EiOt •rt"Ef ◄ lt/.L:
     McDivitt   We ' ve already lost some very va l uable data from

                this flight.      We could have taped t he entire

                EVA and brought those communications back down.

                As it was, we couldn ' t tape them becaus e we had

                to put the thing in UHF so that we c oul d transmit
                to the ground .    We los t all of t he       bless ed
                stuff going to the ground anyway .
     White      There are certain systems in here that I think

                are very poorly designed .     I think t his is about

                the poorest of them all .     It ' s l ocated in such a
                position that you can not see the opeation light

                when it is on.     The light is in an area where

                you normally would put things .     Things get put

                on top of it so      that if you look down there, you
                can't see the light .     The light is such a small

                insignificant thing when it comes on.         Unless you
                conscious l y bend your head down and l ook down

                below your right elbow, you can not see whet her

                the light is on or not.      The switch is set so t hat

                you have to go in either RECORD , Ul!F , HF, or

                INTERCOM and you can not be in RECORD while you're

                on UHF or INTERCOM.     This is a very unsatisfa c t ory

                method of having a tape recorder.         The tape r e corder

--- PAGE 79 ---
73


           should be set up so that it can record conversa­

           tions on normal UHF , HF , and INTERCOM type opera­
           tions .     As Jim pointed out , in our flight alone
           I think we l ost sets of valuab l e information.

           During launch we weren ' t able to tape anything
           onboard .     We weren't able to tape the work during
           EVA .     We could have taped some of the work duri ng

           t he rendezvous part of the flight ,     I don ' t be­
           lieve we taped i t though .    The w~y it's set up

           you wouldn't l eave i t on i n t hat manner . We both
           had requirements to communicate over UHF .       This
           was our normal mode of operation .      If we have a
           tape recorder , it shoul d have a separate switch .
           If t here is an hour limitation on the tape, there
           should be a light that oomes on and is easily visi­
           ble on the front somewhere.
MoDivitt   That's right .     It ought to go right on the VCC .
White      That's right .     That ' s really where the light be­
           longs .     I think that it woul d be desirable and
           important to have a voice t ape of what ' s going on
           throughout the flight .     I wouldn't have any ob­
           jection to having a tape recorder with the capa­
           bility of recording more than the one hour at a


            CO t 4fl"Et tTI.Q:t

--- PAGE 80 ---
74


                time that we have now.     I'd like to see us record­

                ing a great deal of the flight .    It'd be nice to

                have a switch to turn it off from time to time

                if you did want to discuss something that you

                didn ' t want to go on tape .
     McDivitt   I don't think we ought to put the whole flight

                on tape .   If we flew a week-long flight, it would

                take a week to go through the tape.     You wouldn't

                want long periods of nothing on there .    I think

                the way we wanted to operate it this time would
                have been all right, if we could have just opera­

                ted it that way.    There were certain periods

                where we put a tape on and ra.n it all the way

                through.    Well, that was the tape that covered

                a certain experiment or something.
     White      On our D-9 Experiment, we used it.
     McDivitt   Yes , that's where we used a whole tape on it .
                Then there were periods that were questionable

                when you were s l eeping and I wasn I t doing anything,
                or I was sleeping and you weren't doing anything .
     White      If you carried adequate tapes, and you had adequate

                warning when the thi ng went on and off, you would
                not have the same situation we had on the D-9

--- PAGE 81 ---
75


           Experiment .   You could have the tape stop in the

           middle of the experiment and be lying on your

           back looking out with the sextant.     You haven't

           got any idea in the world the tape's run out on

           you .

McDivitt   Right.

White      I think that it's a ve-ry, vezy unsatisfactory sys­

           tem .    It ranks right up along with the top ones,

           and we ' ve already hit on some of them already.

           The digital command system I · thought worked very
           well.     I thought the light in there gave U$ a

           good indication of several things.     It gave us an

           indication of when the station was about to come

           on and communicate with us.     We used this as a

           clue to turn on our UHF to warm our transmitter

           up so we would be ready when the transmission came
           up.     I think updates from the ground came up in

           a ve-ry orderly fashion.    I don't have any objec­

           tion about that or any further comments .    Do you?

McDivitt   Ed, I thought it was very good.

White      Handled in a very good manner.

McDivitt   I think so.

White      The only update that I have an objection to is

--- PAGE 82 ---
76               <i8MftDl!
                t hat they updated our t ime reference system and

                had it inaccurately updated by a second .
     McDivitt   Yes, I think there is a big fla p about that .

     White      I 'd like to find out about that , too .    The r eal

                time-transmitter , delayed- time transmitter, stand­

                by transmitter-- they seemed like they all worked

                pretty well .    We had no use for the standby

                transmit t er and we used the rea l - time and delayed­

                time transmitter throughout t he flight .     You don ' t
                have any comments on this, do you?

     McDivitt   I 've got one comment .   When we came over Guaymas
                after our computer went out , and we ' d already

                fouled the thing up , I know , they said they wanted

                us to come right- side-up for a critical tape dump .

                So I did , and I got a message from the ground say­

                i ng , "Put your Tape Playback to CONTINUOUS ."     So

                I put the Tape Playback Switch to CONTINUOUS .

                Pretty soon they called up and said , "Do you have
                your TM switch to REAL-TI ME and DELAYED-TIME?"

                I said, "No, I don't have.     You 're going to have

                to put it down there."    They didn ' t bother telling

                me that t hey didn ' t have any command capability
                whatsoever .    I went ahead and put the Tape Play­

                back to CONTINUOUS , which means that you 're dumping

--- PAGE 83 ---
77


        all that tape.   If you don ' t have the ~eal- time­

        delayed-time transmitters on, you're just dump-

        ing it into noth!e!lg.    You're erasing.    So we got

        some pretty inadequate communications there.         They

        should have said,     "We don 't have any command
        capability.   Will you please place your tape

        recorder and your TM switches so we can receive

        it?"   We knew how to work the thing.       It ' s just

        that the instructions we got conflicted with the

        normal procedures.       Consequently we dumped all this
        tape that really was critical.       I'm not sure how

        much of it they got on the ground.       I'm not even

        sure if they ever got any of it on the ground • .

        because we got some not only inadequate but really
        erroneous instructions.

White   Okay, communications---we covered them in coordin­

        ation with the ground a little earlier.        I think
        that the flight controllers handled our flight in

        a very good manner.      I think that when they had

        something to say, they said it , and when they knew

        that we wanted to talk to them, they'd talk to us.

        When they didn't have something to say, it was kept

        in a good manner.     I thought it was a very profes-

--- PAGE 84 ---
78



     McDivitt    Yes, I thought that they were to be commended .

                 As a matter of fact, when we have our world-wide

                 network debriefing or whatever the heck we ' re

                 going to have I really intend to applaud them

                 loud and long .

     White       I thought the teamwork between the spacecraft

                 and the communicators on the ground was outstand­

                 ing.

     McDivitt    It was really good .

     White       No adverse comment on anytime during the f l ight .
     McDivitt    Shoot, if you wanted to talk to them they were

                 more than happy to talk to you .     A lot of times

                 they ' d come on and say, "This is Gu.aymas .    We
                 have your TM solid .    We don't have anything for

                 you .   If you have anything for us, we 'll be

                 standing by."     And that would be it .    They were

                 really good , I thought.    We've about covered
                 procedures .

     White       Right, I think we've hit that too.         Okay, the    ..,

                 communication controls and switches--voice control

                 center--I've always been pretty happy with that .
     McDivi tt   One other thing I want to comment on is the voice

                 control Center.     If we had carried that idiotic

--- PAGE 85 ---
79


           contraption that McDonnell had designed to keep

           the moisture out of that thing , we would have

           had one more hunk of junk in the spacecraft with
           us.    It would have been a completely ·useless thing

           because of the nwnber of times that we switched

           switches on that VCC .   Heck , we switched switches

           on the VCC more than all the other switches on

           the spacecraft put together.     I think if we would

           have had to pull off that big piece of plastic

           every minute, it would have gone on the floor and

           stayed there.    That's right.

White      That was a very poor fix to try to solve a bad

           design.

McDivitt   Okay, why don't you talk about that sleep config­

           uration?

White      Okay, with the sleep configuration , we lmew right

           away we had bought a weenie .    The first time I
           tried to go to sleep, we tried to t urn everything

           off.    We tried turning all my volumes down to zero.

           We turned to PUSH.JIIO.JI'ALK only, and I could still

           sit there and hear it about a one by one level.
           It was just enough so I could hear audibly what

           was going on and under stand if I paid attention

--- PAGE 86 ---
80



                to it .

     McDivitt   If you really listened, you could hear .

     White      That's right .     If you were very close to going to

                sleep and something went on that was interesting ,

                you could hear just enough to wake you up and

                pull your interest to it.      It made sleeping

                rather difficult .     We didn ' t want to disconnect

                ourselves from the system a ltogether.      We ' d like

                to have a way to actually tum the volume all

                the way down and provide the astronaut · that ' s

                awake the capability of controlling the voice
                c~ntrol ccnter ' R volume so that he can turn the
                sleeping astronaut ' s volume up and talk to him

                anytime .

     McDivitt   That ' s right .   I think what we really need in

                there is an ON- OFF switch for each half of the

                vcc.
     White      So you can effectively cut him off and turn him

                back on .

     McDivitt   That ' s right.    You just reach over there and you

                break t he communications with a simple ON-OFF

                switch.     Then if you ' ve got to get to it in a

                hurry , you j ust f l i p the thing back on and then

--- PAGE 87 ---
81




               talk to him .    I don't know where on the VCC you ' d
               mount it.

White          I think they can solve that problem pretty well.

               It might not be in that manner but I think they

               can solve it so you've got it definitely on or

               off.

McDivitt       That's right. T.hey need a simple way of disconnect­

               ing the man from the c©mmunicat i ons center wi thout

               disconnecting his--
White          I'd say that this was a very unsatisfactory con­

               dition.     When we finally went to get some rest, we

               disconnected the communications cord at the hel­

               met.    I think this is an extremely unsatisfactory
               mode.     If we should go pressurized at any time
               and have to pressurize our suits , we 'd just lose

               communications between each other.      This would be

               a very, very unsatisfactory situation.       I believe

               that this should be corrected prior to the next

               flight.    The .Jieacon Control, Adapter and l:\eentry-­
               no comment,     Those were all right.
McDivitt       Yes, that was excellent.
White          The TM control transmitter and antenna--I don't '.
               have any comments on them.
McDivitt       No, they were pretty well designed, I thought.
           -   • · '5Q ►+F•9~~.W.,1,--+

--- PAGE 88 ---
82



         White        That ' s right .     Okay , the electrical system--

8 . 6 Electrical System

         White        Okay, t he systems       monitoring.   I thought it was

                          satisfactory .   We went through and monitored the

                          systems every time for the GO/NO GO checks, and

                      quit e a few times along the line in addition to

                      this.      So I thought the method of monitoring was

                          satisfactory.    I don't believe we really had any
                      way of monitoring the electrical power remaining.

         McDivitt     Yes, that ' s a draw back, and we all know it, I

                      guess .

         White        Right .     That ' s an unsatisfactory conditionmd

                      I don ' t know what we're going to do about it.

                      I think it's too much of a job to try to think

                          that you ' re going to sit in there and calculate

                      all the things you have on,and try to keep an

                          onboard plot of what electrical power you have

                          remaining .
         McDivitt     Yes , I think this is a ground function .      I don't

                      think that we can realistically do it onboard the

                          spacecraft .

         White        I don't believe we got any indication of how our

                          electrical power was going from the ground,except

--- PAGE 89 ---
83


           for one time when they called us up and told us

           we wer e 190 amp- hour s , I think it was 190 amp­

           hours , over--

McDivitt   That was after we turned the computer off.      I

           wanted to find out why we turned the computer off

           and if we were really short on electrical power .

           Then they told me we were 160 amp-hours over the

           200 amp-hours cushion.     I almost went throught the

           overhead .

White      I think I'd like to have had a little more infor­

           mat i on from the ground on the status of our elec­

           trical system.     The mai n batteries--I have a com­
           ment on them .   They started out with a charge of

           about 24 volts and progressively decreased to the

           point where I was a hair concerned about them.

           They progressed down to the 22 . 5 reading and
           began to shade lower than that near the end of

           the mission .    I was using the parallax to be sure
           I had a satisfactory reading on t he gages each

           time .   I noticed they decr eased down to a minimum

           of 22 . 5.   Maybe it got to 22 but it was getting

           near t he end of the mission.

McDivitt   Ha , ha ! Maybe 22 .49 .

White      Just the way I 'd lean my head I could get the

--- PAGE 90 ---
7
            iii> blBO.E~IJA:~
           reading the way I wanted it.         Ha, ha!    The

           squib batteries--our electrical briefing I

           thought, · wa.s very good.     Everything behaved just

           the way they told me .       The squib batteries star ted

           out pretty high, around 27 or 28 volts , and they

           progressively decreased in voltage as we went

           through the mission .    The main batteries--every

           time I checked them they always checked out at

           about   9 • as far as the amps were concerned . The
           adapter batteries--I was glad we'd had the brief­

           ing on them because I realized that knees on the
           adapter batteries were in operation during the

           launch when we got a high reading on the left

           stack ammeter up around 27 or 28 amps, and we had

           a reading of around,I believe,14 amps on the right
           one.    I didn't alarm Jim with this information

           because it was still below my cut-off point of about

           30 amps or so.     I felt that it was due to the knees

           in the adapter batteries causing unequal loadings

           of the main batteries with respect to the adapter

           batteries.
McDivitt   Hold it .    I want to make some comments about the
           electrical system and the power as we used it .

--- PAGE 91 ---
85



        When we powered down , we turned of.f the a . c.

        power, t he QA.MS power, t he ACME": biag power, the

        rate gyros, the horizon scanner, the IMU, the

        computer, both FDI ' s , and the attitude indicator

        lights.   We operated with as little in the way

        of cockpit lighting as we possibly could.        It

        got less and less and less as the flight progressed.

        In earlier orbits we had a l l the lights on in the

        cockpit- the over, the middle light , and the two

        side lights .   Then £or the night time passes, as

        the flight progressed, we got around to using the

        red lights .    We finally got around to making the

        night-side passes generally with one r ed light on
        or one white light on, as we got more confidence

        in the spacecraft .    I think we save quite a bit o{

        power that way.     They were surprised that we were

        160 amp-hours ahead , and I don ' t think that we

        got that way by accident.

White   I ' ve got a comment to make on that.       We were both

        watching the loadings and I could read them a

        littl e better over there.    We started out operat­
         ing arourd 14, maybe a l i ttle better .    The reading

         on the combi ned amp-hours s l owly decreased down

--- PAGE 92 ---
86


                and near the end of the mission, we were down to

                12 or 13 amp-hours on unpowered down configuration.

                That was as low as I saw it go, down around 12 .
     McDivitt   Another thing that we did was that when we wer en't

                actually planning on transmitting on one of the

                radios, we were always putting the mode control

                switch to INTERCOM, which would then cut the trans­

                mitter off the line.   You could actually see the

                ammeter go down a little bit.      So I think that

                by really powering down the spacecraft and getting

                all the non-essential items off the line , we helped

                ourselves a lot.   We got this 160 amp- hour cushion

                because we really worked at it, not because it
                just happened like that.
     White      This takes a little diligence.
     McDivitt   Yes , not because it was a miscalculation on the
                guys who were planning the flight, but just the

                fact that we really worked at keeping the lights

                off , keeping the radios off, and keeping those
                little bitty things down.   You know, you only

                have to save two amps per hour .    We ran on a single

                suit fan almost the entire flight, except when Ed
                was getting warm when he was sleeping we ha d to

--- PAGE 93 ---
87


                     go to two suit fans.
          White      Right.    When it got so uncomfortable that I

                     couldn't sleep, we would go over.       We really did­
                     n 't do that too much .
          McDivitt   No , we didn't .   We made a real effort to keep the
                     electrical load down.       I think that it sort of
                     showed up there towards the end of the mission
                     when we really had enough spare power to run the
                     IGS through the last day--uselessly of course ,
                     but at leas t we ran it.
8 . 7 Computer
          McDivitt   In the launch we had the computer in ASCENT .          F.d

                     was reading out the errors during launch.         I read
                     ou~ the rates which didn ' t require an;y information
                     from the computer.
          White      I was readi~out the lack of errors most of the
                     time.
          McDivitt   Lack of errors, right.       Why don't you discuss     the
                     error status.
          White      I think we discussed it earlier and I'll just go
                     briefly through it.       We didn't have any error s
                     that I feel would be worth repeating during Stage I.

                     At guidance initiate we got a ful}-scale-down indi­
                     cation.   This indication I had been       told

--- PAGE 94 ---
88



                fairly routine, and it appeared routine ' to me

                too as it began to steer into zero and steered

                right on into zero .     As we approached iSEXJO the

                error started to increase a little bit and in­

                creased out to a little less than a degree in

                pitch-down on the error needle .     Aside from that,

                we didn ' t have ,,as far as I can see, any other error

                that was worth talking about during launch.

     McDivitt   Okay, at SECO + 20 the IVI ' s counted up as we

                separated,rolled around, and did all the maneuvers
                we were supposed to. The IVI's acted as they should .

                When I got turned around and was faced toward the

                spacecraft,I was in a hurry to get all these

                things done .     I started thrusting and I went from

                Ascent to Catch-Up, and then hit the Start Comp
                button.~    I lost a couple of feet/second here ,

                but this was sort of insignificant at the time.

                The IVI's counted up in the Catch-Up Mode and they

                operated properly throuehout the rest of the chase­

                phase of the mission.     We were getting the kind

                of information that we needed right there early

                in the flight .    Ed had 52 punched in and it read
                out at 30 feet/second, I think he said earlier .

--- PAGE 95 ---
89


White      Yes , I picked that up later on because I wasn't

           even concerned with it since we had a good orbit.

McDivitt   Once we had a good orbit that kind of information

           wasn't that important.

White      Do you want the IVI readings at this time?

McDivitt   Yes, you might just as well read them out.

White      The IVI readings at the time we decided to read

           them --at   zero, zero, zero on the attitude indi­

           cator~- 20 forward, right 11, down 5.

McDivitt   The attitudes weren't really what they should
           have been, because we had a good insertion and
           we had to go right then and we had to get turned

           around and get at that booster.        I didn't fool
           around with getting the spacecraft at.exactly the

           right attitude to read out the IVI's.         I thought

           that was of a :~;:i.demic interest .   It would be great

           for post-flight analysis but it wasn ' t going to
           help the flight at      all.   So I didn ' t do justice

           to those things.     I'm sure that we can go back

           and resurrect this thing to find out exact ly

           what it was.    It wasn't very meaningful at the

           time .   The orbit maneuvers consisted of really

           just chasing the booster around and reading up the

           IVI ' s as they came out.      We received all our updates
           difi)~~FIDE~~llAuw-

--- PAGE 96 ---
90



                properly.    We got the computer on and got it

                loaded .    The DCS updates were going in and they

                were gett Lng V fJ dfication on the ground.     One time

                I remember we didn't g6t the DCS light .       As a

                matter of fact, they sent the load up again and

                we sti.l.l iid.n ' t get the DCS light.   They verified
                on the ground that it was going in .

     White      Well, the funny thing 'we.S when the computer wasn ' t
                on we got a DCS light.

     McDivitt   The DCS lights come on when they get set up for
                the TX and send out a :r.ealbtime command,too.
     White      Well, mRybe the TX when they sent up-·          They
                kept telling us that they got a good load in it

                and I had no light.     I really didn ' t quite bel ieve
                them .
     McDivitt   Neither did I.    As a matter- of fact, we had it

                verified at the next station.
     White      Okay.
     McDivitt   And that ' s where the onboard computer thing ends .
                I might go through what happened to the thing .

                We were over the .States and h!;',,d the onboa rd computer
                on for getting a new load in it.      I got just about

                over Florida .   He said, okay, I could turn the

--- PAGE 97 ---
tffiFIDEr-4TIAL                                       91



           computer off.   I turned the switches off and

           nothing happened .   The comp l i ght stayed on

           and I don ' t even think the ·malfunction light came

           on , did it? No, it didn't. So I said, "Well, that 's

           interesting that the darn thing doesn't go off. "

           So we flicked the IGS power of~ and back on

           quickl y and told them on the grotmd that it

           didn't look l ike I could get the computer to go

           off and stay off.

White      I think you told them you thought you had a

           failure in the switch .

McDivitt   Yes, I told them it looded to me like I probably

           had a failure i n the ON-OFF Switch or the ON- OFF
            switchiqsfunction.    And they said okay .    So I
           said, "What do you want me to do here?"       I knew

           we could a l ways t urn it off by t urning the IGS off,
           but I wasn ' t too keen on that , So they said, "Stand

           by.   We' re going to have the experts check it. "

           So we flew on out of communication with them.
           I think they talked to me over Bermuda too, but

           nothing of much importance.    They said to stand
           by they were still checking it.     Then we got ove.c

           Tananarive and I got this message to turn the


             GQt◄ FIDE~~TIAk

--- PAGE 98 ---
92



     switch to the ON position but to turn tie a . 0.

     power to ACME,which was going to power down the

     computer whether we wanted it to or not .          It

     was a voice relay station but we weren't getting

     the voine relayed.        We were just getting a message

     sent up from somebody on the g~ound.         I ' m quite

     sure we didn't have any controllers at Tananarive .
     I don't r eally know who was talking to me .            Probably

     SOUlf-!   COM TECH , So • not being able to discuss the
     thi.ng with them and not knowing what the status

     of my total electrical p,wer was at the tim., , I

     went ahead and t·..1.r.ned them off. The comp light
     or the malfunction light came on and then it sort

     got dim H,nd wen-f: 1)ut.    Then I sort of figured that •s

     the end of the ACPU.        So we put the thing back

     on over Carnarvon and back off again and it

     woul dn't come on.       It was dead,of course .    So

     that's the life story of the computer.         Then we

     played a lot of games afterward trying to ml'l.kc~                 ..
     a dead man come back to lifA.         I have nothing

     else on the computer.        I sure wished I'd have

     had it though.




      f'~t 1F1DfJM+IAit

--- PAGE 99 ---
93

8.8 Crew Station
         McDivitt    Controls and displays-
                                         . -okay, I' 11 talk about

                     that.    The s,equential Telelights   all operated

                     properly,--came on in the proper colors,    and

                     punched off and everythi.ng.    The event timer

                     operated properly.    The IVI operated properly.

                     The flight director indicator operated properly.

                     I would like to discuss the GLV fuel and oxidizer

                     pressure gages here for a minute .     We got about

                     a $25 million vehicle,! think,that depends almost

                     entirely on a launch.     We've got an onboard

                     manual ietection system ,or something like that .

          White      Malfunction detection system.

          McDivitt   Malfunction detection system .    An integral part
                     of the malfunction detection system, are the fuel

                     and oxidizer pressure gages for both the first and

                     second stages .    This is one of the abort criteriaI

                     On the scal e of these gages down below the glass

                     is a beautiful, beantiful set of lines and numbers
                     and hash marks ,tha.t are wrong. They updated the GLV

                     information and found out that these things were
                     in error by quite a bit.     No~ to take and fix

                      these gages would have taken a couple thousand

                     bucks.    I don't know exactly how much or how

--- PAGE 100 ---
94


     long, but it would have taken a few dollars.            In­

     stead we decided it would be simpler and cheaper

     and a lot quicker to go ahead and paste some

     paper decals over the top of the glass .       The

     parallax with these things is horrendous .        The

     decal s were pasted on over t he top of the glass

     in such a manner that they completely obscure

     the inside-the- glass readings.They also obscure the

     center needles which are not only the clue to

     what the taz1k pressures are but a clue to whether

     you have any APS power, which is also critical .

     When you cut these things back so that you can

     see the inside needles ,       you see the inside gage
     too .   I think this nickel-dime fix to ·our multi... ·!.
     million doll ar vehicle is ridiculous.       I think

     that we ought to get those inside gages painted

     the way that they ' re supposed to be painted.       I

     think we ought to end this Mickey Mouse gage

     routine right now and get going on GT-5 ' s fuel

     and oxidizer gages for both stages .       It's ridicu­

     lous the way they are right now.       The a .l timeter

     worked as advertised.      I mentioned that it went
     down and back up again at around 100,000 feet .

--- PAGE 101 ---
95


           The rate of aescent seemed to be all right.        The

           accelerometer was okay.       The switches and circuit

           breaker panels--! had no comment.       We knocked a

           couple of switches and circuit breakers off dur­

           ing the course of the flight.       We always caught

           them and got them back on quickly , or maybe we

           didn't get them back on quickly.       We got them

           back on quickly enough because nobody ever said

           much to us about it.       They commented one time .

           Two times,I think, they asked us if we turned some­
           thing on or off.

White      I remember that .    One was over on my side.
McDivitt   Was one the A       pump   on the   s econdary

           loop or the E pump on the secondary loop,or did
           you turn that on?

White      No.   I think one of them was up there, and I for­

           get how we got it on.
McDivitt   Maybe we just bumped it.       Yes, there was another

           one over on your right-hand side and there were

           a couple of them in the center circuit breaker ~

           panel.   One time I know I bumped one on the left­

           hand side circuit breaker panel.       I thought it

           was the-electronic timer.       It was one right above


           ~ ►~FlDWTlAIJ

--- PAGE 102 ---
96


                that.     I almost had a heart attack when I saw

                that thing go down because it would have messed

                up the whole time reference system .     I thought
                the switches and circuit breaker panels were

                very good .    I have no complaint about it.   I
                think that's a well designed cockpit.      The mirrors

                were fine and the swizzle stick was a real life

                saver .    I can't reach the circuit breakers and

                switches over on the right-hand side unless I

                use the swizzle stick.     I had to do a lot of
                switching when Ed was sleeping.      This swizzle
                stick was the real answer.

     White      I 've been always telling you to get some long

                arms .     H~, ha!    I didn ' t use the swizzle stick
                very much .

     McDivitt   Yes, but you don't have to reach over and get

                those switches all on the left-hand side .

     White      I found the swizzle stick was quite useful for

                unstowing items out, of the center stowage box.

     McDivitt   That ' s right .

     White      It was really good there.     I used that every time

                when I unstowed.

     McDivitt   It ' s a good piece of equipment .   Okay , lighting- do

                .you want to ~       ~       ting, Ed?
                 GiQ.f >.~tfit~

--- PAGE 103 ---
97


White   Okay, I think that the lighting to me was sur­

        prisingly good.   I think that at one time there

        was a press to put two white lights on either

        side on the instrument panel.   I think the lights

        on the instrument panel should remain just as

        they are.   I think we used the red light much more

        than we used the white light.   There was quite a

        bit of time when you had to do a lot of out-the­

        window operation at night and you wanted to have

        some reference inside. The red light doesn't
        seem to destroy your night ~eference at all.      So
        I think the instrument lights, the two on either

        side above the panel, are satisfactory.   I also

        thought the del etion of the red light in the cabin
        light and the substitution of a bright white

        light was certainly good.   There were several times

        when I wanted to get a reading on something right

        away and I didn't want to fool around with dim

        lighting.   I would switch on the big bright light

        and I was almost always able to get good readings.

        Now when the sun was really bright in you face,
        there was a period of time in which your eyes

        had to adjust to the instrument panel before you


        .e@t'4FIDEMTIAL

--- PAGE 104 ---
98


                could make the readings .     I think you could put

                spot lights in there and not get by that prob­

                lem.

     McDivitt   That's exactly what I was go ing to say .       Lights

                aren't going to solve that problem .

     White      No, it's just plain bright outside.         When you look

                back in, even though you have your lights on , it's

                fairly dark inside .     I personally wasn ' t troubled

                by this very many times during the flight .        Were

                you , Jim?
     McDivitt   No, I wasn ' t.

     White      I didn't feel that was too bad .     S~ actually, I

                felt that the lighting , although not abundant ,
                was adequate.      I think the actual light ing of the

                instruments would certainly be nicer if we had

                individual instruments lit up.      Oh, ene thing -­

                several times I would like to have had a flash­

                Eght in there, something where I could direct a

                real beam of light.      The little side light& I

                thought, were close to being useless .      I didn' t

                use my little side light, the auxiliary light ,

                very much at all.

     McDivitt   As a matter of fact , I didn ' t either .

     White      Very seldom .     I think that if we're going to have
                 •Gl>J~LOiMIWs.

--- PAGE 105 ---
99


           a little auxiliary light like thatl it

           ought to be a light--

McDivitt   It ought to be a big auxiliary light !    Ba, Pa!

White          a directed beam.     This goes right back to

           something that we forgot to point out in water

           management.     I think we ought to point it out

           right now loud and clear.     I think that we have

           to have a system in which we can gage the water

           outflow.     I think the medical people feel fairly
           strong about this also.     I know that I restrained
           from drinking because I didn't want to drink all

           the water out of there prior to the end of the

           four days.    I got a feeling Jim was doing the same
           thing.

McDivitt   That's right.    I was doing exactly the same thing.
White      I didn't drink abundantly at any time during the
           flight except perhaps right before the r3entry.

           I felt I was taking quite a bit of moisture with

           my reconstituted food.    I felt that if I overdid
           it t he first part of the fligh~, we wouldn't get

           through the last part, because water is so critical.
McDivitt   That's right.    We've got a number of expendp.~les

           like OAMS, and we've got a couple of gages for

--- PAGE 106 ---
100                       t◄ p=rr,aq l¥A l


                 the propellants .    We ' ve got the EGS oxygen .          We ' ve

                 got quantity gages for that .     We ' ve got electrical
                 power and we ' ve got .ways of measuring that from

                 the ammeter .    We've got food and we can a l ways

                 count that .    But when we get down to water, which

                 is just as critical as all these other things in
                 flyir.g_ long duration missions, t here ' s not a single

                 way in the world we can measure how much we've

                 gotten or how muchi. we ' ve drunk .     I think it ' s

                 imperative that we get some method of measuring
                 this t hing before we try to fly another long du­

                 ration flight.

      White      The white light on the little utility light was

                 not satisfactory.     We tried to look to see if we

                 could find out what we had in the cabin bottle- ­

      McDivitt   Water tank .

      White      And that wasn ' t satisfactory.        I think we ought , ,

                 to have some t ype of a metering system which

                 would enable us to actually determine the water

                 that we 've utilized and in some way koow that

                 we ' re getting it out of t he adapter .       I don ' t

                 know .    We need to look into the whole water
                 metering system, which is non- existent, and see

                 ic!o~{Bt some kind of system.
                                  FNilAt

--- PAGE 107 ---
101



McDivitt   You lmow even if we can ' t get something that they

           can pipe into the spacecraft, at the very least

           we ought to TM the pressura.nt pressure down to the

           ~ound and back up again , or something, and get ,

           some sort of calibration curve--

White      So that we'd lmow what we have remaining in the

           a .dapter.

McDivitt   We could at least call the people down at the

           ground and say, "How much water do we have left?"

White      That ' s right.    And I think we ought to be able to
           tell what our bottle has inside of it in the

           spacecraft .

McDivitt   Yes, I 1:h:ink they're really two separate things .

           I think first of all you 've got to know the

           total water that you've got left and the r ate

           that     it's going down.    I think the second thing
           that Ed's pointing out is that we don't even have

           a:n:y way of telling what the water supply is in the

           spacecraft.       The first clue that you get that

           you're out of water is you just run out of water.

White      The lighting on the water management panel I

           think is just about non-existent.       You can see it
           in the daytime.       If you know the position of the

--- PAGE 108 ---
102



                 switches and lmow where they're supposed to be,

                 you can make sure they ' re located properly and on

                 the proper indication, but I can 't read anything

                 down in that area at night.     The lighting is very

                 poor in that area.

      McDivitt   One thing that I'd like to comment on here a

                 little bit is that    ~   amber light that I insisted

                 that they put on the Preheat-Flush     switch over

                 back of the water management panel .   I felt it

                 came in real handy.   Two times during the course

                 of the flight I left the Preheat switch on after
                 I flushed it for short periods of time to make

                 sure we didn't have any ice left in the lines .
                 I did it on every occas ion, but two times the

                 thing that called my attention to the fact that

                 I still had the thing on , was the fact I could

                 see that orange light-amber light-shining up be­

                 tween the food box and the front of the spacecraft .

                 I could tell that I had another light on in the

                 back.
      White      And so I think the left panel, center panel , right

                 panel, pedestal, and console are not lit abundantly,
                 but are lit what I ' d call adequately and perhaps

--- PAGE 109 ---
a little marginal in some cases .      I had no diffi­

           culty in reading the des i gnations on the switch­

           breaker panels.     I think they were lighted ade­
           quately also.     I'm not going to say they're
           lighted well , because I don ' t think the lighting

           is real good in the spacecraft.      The water

           management panel isn ' t lighted properl y .   I 'm

           not sure we reall y have to have it l i ghted too

           well .   The utility lights, I t hink,as they are

           now.,are very close to being useless .     It's like

           taking a match and trying to use it to find your

           way around .    It doesn ' t provide enough light .

           From time to time I would have liked to have had
           a light which had a little stronger output of

           light available,~ so that I coul d-- I several times

           wanted to look behind my seat for things at night
           and I ' d like to look down into the area in the
           water management panel light.

McDivitt   Yes , I think probably the wattage on those bulbs

           should go up an order of magnitude to make them
           effective.
White      You use it so seldom that it wouldn ' t be a big

           power use.     You ' d only use it when you needed it ,

--- PAGE 110 ---
104



                 It wouldn't be something you ' d use very often.

      McDivitt   I'll tell you what it all is,though.      When you

                 want it, you want something that you can see .

                 You just can ' t see with those things at all .

      White      I don ' t particularly understand what the interior

                 and exterior lights mean .    Do you?

      McDivitt   I think the exterior lighting is probably the
                 lighting that could probably be used for docking .

                 We didn't have any exterior lights.

      White      I thought the intensity control of the lights was
                 an absolute necessity and I think it was satis­

                 factory.   I think the fingertip lights are quite

                 useful , and were commented on already. They should

                 have the Lexan covers, and we've also commented

                 that they should be located between     the finger­

                 tip and the first joint.     The onboard data--now

                 here we come to a very useful piece of equipment.

                 Ha , ha!    I believe I made a considerate effort
                 three times to   update that thing, and I never

                 got up with it any one of those times .

      McDivitt   We had three positions on our flight plan strip.

                 We had launch,the first five minutes-- ·t'he next
                 time I tried to get it was 23 hours.      The next

--- PAGE 111 ---
105



           position was 88.         :Ha, ha '

White      And neither time did I catch up really where we

           were .    I turned and turned and turned and then

           got distracted into something else .

McDivitt   Quite frankly , the only things I, ever saw in that

           flight plan roller were the 23- hour and the 88-

           hour times and I never even read what it said .

White      I didn't quite agree with--

McDivitt   84 it was, I'm sorry.         It wasn ' t 88, it was 84 .

           And Ed wrote something on here. He wrote my
           parachute-deploy time .

White      I wrote your times during l'.eentry on there .

McDivitt   It would have been much more useful if there

           hadn ' t been anything on it at all.

White      Yes , we put a few times up there--

McDivitt   I couldn't read those things, which were the only

           numbers that I really was interested in at all .

White      40CK      2+ 38 • Ghute 12+ 33 .     The only two that I
           thought you really needed were those two.             I put

           them on there.        I diat t thoroughly believe Gus
           when he said you ought to take the thing out,

           throw it away, and leave a hole in the instrument
           panel .     But I ' m inclined to agree with him r ight

--- PAGE 112 ---
106



                 Now.   You ought to take it out, throw it away ,

                 and leave a hole in the instrument panel .       But

                 honestly, what I do think ought to go up t here ,

                 is a good digital clock readout .

      McDivitt   I don ' t think an analog clock in that     position

                 would do you any good though.

      White      They both have a high degree of parallax .

      McDivitt   Yes, the parallax would make it usel ess .     I think
                 if it goes in there it ought to be digital .

      White      Yes, a one- second clock.
      McDivitt   I ' m not really sure that we're going to get a

                 digital clock in because of the      complexity and

                 the weight and all that jazz.

      White      Let ' s talk about the clocks right now , Jim.

      McDivitt   Okay, let ' s talk about the clocks .

      White      I ' ll hit mine and then you hit yours and then

                 there should be a conclusion that we could come

                 to .

      McDivitt   Very good .

      White      I think the clock on my side is unsatisfactory.
                 I wouldn ' t recommend flying it on another flight .

                 It's difficult to read .    There are two hands

                 going aroun~ keeping track of minute~ and some-

                 t~     ou read the wro~     minute hand.   The one
                  Q     ~,FtDEf>ffl~~-

--- PAGE 113 ---
107



           that ' s keeping your hack-¼t's easy to mistake for

           your minute hand.    The way the face is marked it ' s

           difficult to read the minutes out .     The hours

           interfere with each other.      The whole readability

           of the clock is unsatisfactory and the readability

           of the hands is unsatisfactory.      SQ I think the

           clock is out in all counts as far as I ' m concerned.

           I kept watching Jim's clock over there and I think

           I could get a better Greenwich Mean Time off of

           his clock than I could on mine on my side of the
           instrument panel.
McDivitt   Hey, let me comment on mine .     I thought the reada­

           bility of t hat Accutron 24-hour clock was excellent.
           The accuracy of it was lousy.      It lost four or

           or f ive seconds every day or more .    I reset it

           about every 24 hours.    My Omega wrist wat ch that

           I had set on GMT never lost a second, except I

           forgot to wind it one day, and it ran down .        It
           stopped.   Ha, ha!

White      I was guilty of the same thing.
McDivitt   But the Accutron clock on my side of the instru­

           ment panel, that they put on as sort of an

           afterthought, was indeed a fine clock as far as

--- PAGE 114 ---
108              ~ee, ◄ rrAL

                 readability.    It didn ' t have any chronometer func­

                 tion to it at all .     It had strictly a second,

                 minute , and hour hand on it.     It told you GMI'

                 and it didn't tell you anything else.      It told

                 you GMI' in a way you could read it .    You could

                 read out the minutes, you could read out the hours,

                 and you could read out the seconds.      I really

                 didn't have any trouble with it at all .     It had

                 a nice thin second hand which I find to ~e much

                 more useful than those great big blunt t hings

                 with huge arrows on the end of them.      I hat e to

                 lose the chronometer feature on that right-hand

                 side, but I do think that the readability of
                 this thing ,as far as the GMI' is concerned, is so

                 much superior to that other clock that it isn ' t
                 even comparable.
      White      I'm not sure that the chronometer function on

                 that side is really too important .
      McDivitt   • Don' t you?

      White      No, I would be perfectly happy to go ahead and

                 take that ,out and put a good clock on there in

                 Greenwi ch Mean Time.    Now I 've got some further
                 comments on--

--- PAGE 115 ---
CO f\J FIDEf\lTlAL                                    109



McDivitt   I guess what you end up with is two clocks that

           aren ' t any good .   Either one of them aren ' t any

           good .    You ' d rather end up with one clock that

           was good.

White      Yes , the way it ' s combined together right now ,

           it ' s really not too good.    I hacked your OAMS

           burn on my watch .     I work with two clocks on my

           left arm and it worked out r eal well for me.         I

           had elapsed time on one and I had Greenwich Mean

           Time on the other .     I used the elapsed timer as

           the one on which I made my hacks .      So I feel we
           got adequate backup.      If one poops out , you can

           use the other one to make your time on.       So, I

           think we should have a good clock to keep track

           of the time in the spacecraft on the instrument
           panel .    Now ,      I'd like to get back on the clocks

           again.     I think that elapsed time is the only kind
           of time that we ought to have in the spacecraft .

           I think that we ought to have a good method of

           keeping track of elapsed time.       I think probably a

           ten-hour clock that keeps track of each ten-hour

           incement that you pasa to a high degree of accu­

           racy, is the kind of clock that we need.       I don't

--- PAGE 116 ---
110              0Gb liUailJJlAL
                 know what we're going to do about wrist watches.

                 Maybe they 'll design us a ten- hour wrist watch

                 that we can wear.      I don't see any reason why

                 they can't .     They can design twelve-hour ones just

                 as easily.      We 're going to go to this in Apollo.

                 We should face up to it and go ahead and spend the

                 money to get ourselves a proper t iming piece of

                 equipment and get our ranges and stuff operating

                 on elapsed time.      In long flights this is the kind
                 of thing that ' s going to be of interest .   It was

                 confusing to me, to tell you the truth , to operate

                 on Greenwich Mean Time and elapsed time through-­

                 out the flight.      I was constantly adding and sub­

                 tracting.      They'd call us up Greenwich Mean Times
                 and I'd want to convert them to what I was using

                 on my flight plan.      I found this a gr eat incon­

                 venience.

      McDivitt   I concur with what Ed said.      I ran the whole

                 flight plan using elapsed time except for the
                 times where they called a specific GMT time        to

                 perform a function .     I did it off of a twelve- hour

                 face wrist watch.      I added up all my twelve -hour

                 incements and came to whatever I wanted.      If I

--- PAGE 117 ---
111



           had something like 83 hours and 15 minutes , I

           had to figure out that that was six times around

           the clock and another 11 hours and another 15

           minutes .   Obviously,not the best way in the world

           to do it , but the only way that was practical from

           the standpoint of the flight plan .

White      Well, to tell you the truth , Jim, I feel strong

           enough about that       elapsed time that I would be

           happy to go with that type of a system of timing,

           and just go ahead on elapsed t i me all the way and
           use twelve-hour incements.    They would call up

           your time and elapsed time and use your own clock

           to keep track of it .   I felt it was simple enough
           also to do it in this manner .     But I feel that

           this is ini'erior to having a good elapsed timer
           and ten- hour digital incements.
McDivitt   I tell you I hate to see us get involved in some!..

           thing where you 've gpt a clock thats so difficult

           to read,where you've got to add up twelves and-­
White      Now you're on the other side of the fence now!
McDivitt   No, I think that we ought to do things like retro-

           fire time a.~d that' s ort   of    thing       in a

           standard time that you can use-:.. something like GMT .

--- PAGE 118 ---
112                g?t 1~18 Et fFt,-,L


      White       Well, you really need-                         -elapsed
                  time.   If we had elapsed time- -

      McDivitt    If we had a good elapsed timer onboard the space­

                  craft, I would say that there ' s no doubt about it .

                  Elapsed time.

      White       I think we ought to start working on it right

                  now .

      McDivitt    Elapsed time is the way we should go .         I don ' t

                  t hink that with the timing systems we 've got
                  available for the Gemini that we want to go to

                  elapsed time for the whole mission .
      White       Trying to get our data back from this f l ight is

                  going to be a horrible mess because of those two
                  timing systems .

      McDivi tt   I know it .   I agree.     Before we lai.mched , we knew

                  that we wanted to run it in elapsed time , and
                  there wasn ' t any doub't about it .

      White       I think maybe if we make the point str ong enough
                  maybe they ' l l get busy on it .

      McDivitt    You ' re right . l,,J,e'll get going on it .

      Whi te      Okay , why don ' t you take the checklist cards , Jim?
      McDivitt    The checklist cards .     We had two complete sets of
                  car ds that were broken up into t wo groups .        We
                   Qt@ tffl4f11D8JWA L

--- PAGE 119 ---
C9f<JFIIDE~~IJAl                                 113



        had the launch, insertion, M:>de II and M)de III

        aborts, EVA, the suit check and all the things

        that we were going to use in the first five orbits

        of the flight on one set of cards.    We had another

        set of cards from Pre-Retro Checklist down to the

        post landing and emergency egress .   The cards

        included all the plots that were needed to do all

        the retrofire and to make corrections to take

        care of all the non- nominal things that might

        happen to us during the retrofire .   We also had

        in this group of cards a card that we used to con­
        tain the final retro information such as with

        OAMS or without OAMS   burns , time to reverse bank,
        and all the other things that we had.    It was a

        format , something that cou1d be easily held in

        our hands and was actually used during the launch,

        during insertion, and during reentry .   We actually
        had these cards out so we could check them off.
White   I thought the only thing we would have out during
        these t wo critical busy periods of time were these

        two easy- to-hold , easy-to-operate, hand-held card

        checklists.   The rest of the stuff was all stowed
        away .


         c:@ ► H•I1.>6hlil4'.L

--- PAGE 120 ---
114




      McDivitt   We got every checklist     that was required to make

                 the spacecraft run on these two sets of cards,

                 which together were about 3/4 of an i nch thick .
      White      I feel that we had a real workab l e solution to

                 the problem.    These things were the same size as

                 those carried on GT- 3 .   They were much more ex­

                 panded than what GT- 3 •had.    We had the whole

                 how-to-operate the spacecraft routine on these
                 cards.

      McDivitt   The preparation and availability of them-- is

                 this from a training standpoint .    That i s later
                 in the brief.
      McDivitt   Well , anyway, we actually received our cards at
                 about 8:00 the night before the launch .
      White      That ' s the thing that I was hollering about the

                 loudest not to have happen and it happened .     I
                 understand why it happened, but--
      McDivitt   We had so many changes in the flight plan and

                 nobody was working on turning this stuff out .

                 Our time   was so filled with over- all t rai ning

                 and the change in flight plan that we just     didn ' t

                 have time to go--, We did not have time to go

                 through the checklist over and over.     When we did


                 00-lstEtDEtJIJA L

--- PAGE 121 ---
115



           go through them it took too long to get the

           thing back to us .      Dick Benson came down to the

           Cape and did an absolute marvelous job, I think ,

           in getting these things turned out .

White      I think he did, too .      I think we all owe him a

           real vote of confidence.

McDivitt   That's right.       He did an outstanding job .

White      I think the biggest confidence builder that you

           had, Jim , was when we started getting. these books .

McDivitt   That ' s right.     Shoot, I was worried about us get­
           ting ready for the flight because I didn ' t think

           we would be able to get all this stuff together.

           'Finally he showed up and really went through it 9

           but it doesn ' t change the fact that these check­
           list cards and data books didn ' t arrive until

           8: 00 the night before the flight .      We had a few

           changes that had to be made .       I guess I went to

           bed about 9: 30 .     Dick Benson and Martin Miller

           were still in our conference room making changes

           to our books.       So a lot of t hese things we didn ' t
           see until we flipped them out in flight .         I think

           our data books, as we had them laid out, couldn ' t

           have been better.       Well, I shouldn't say that;

--- PAGE 122 ---
116



                 there is always room for improvement .

      White      Yes, I think we could organize them a little

                 better for utility and use .      We had so many

                 changes in so,..many      things that

                 got put in at the end.       It got so that they were
                 put in in a bit of a helter-skelter manner, but

                 certainly they were easy to find .

      McDivitt   Well, I don ' t know.     I was really q_uite pleased

                 with the outcome.       I think that the general ar­

                 rangement of one data book and two-- .whabever we

                 ought to call those other books--
      White      What did we call those other books?
      McDivitt   Two Experiments and Spacecraft Procedures and

                 Flight Plan - 3o uks--
      White      Two procedures and one data .

      McDivitt   Yes , two procedures books and one data book .       One

                 thing I would have changed -- I would have expanded

                 the flight plan and made maybe two or three times

                 as many pages as we did .      We could have written a l l

                 the notes right in it and had enough room to make

                 it intelligible.    Because it turns out , tha:t!s
                 where we really kept all of our notes .

      White      Yes .
      McDivitt   Right on the flight plan.
                 • 8t-tftfl~E ►•ffi l-A L♦

--- PAGE 123 ---
117



White       About the way they had it initially was pretty
            good.   Maybe that ' s a little more than we need,

            but--
McDivitt    No, I don't think it is, Ed.      I think that is the

            way it should be.

White       This is a whole hour on one page .
McDivit t   Really?

White       Yes .   So later on, you see, they went from one

            hour dovm to six hours on a page .     Maybe if they

            cut that in half and made two or three hours on

            a page--this is probably about the--
McDivitt    Two hours on a page for our flight would have

            made 50 single sheets or 25 double pages .       That
            would not have been bad .
White       That probably would have been just about the ·

            right length .
McDivitt    We'd have gotten a lot more out of our notes, I

            think, because we found ourselves scribbling in
            places where it was pretty hard to determine

            where you were .
White       The requirement    to mak~ ·changes i-n the bo0k after

            the flight goes· on is ab5o;tut-ely nil .   So , I thi nk

--- PAGE 124 ---
118




                 that rings should be replaced with something that

                 doesn't come undone .      My rings came undone sev­
                 eral times during the flight and luckily only

                 one at a time came undone.        It would have been

                 a real mess if a:ny of these books would have come

                 apar~ because it would have destroyed numerical

                 sequence.   So , I think something other than rings

                 ought to be used . .

      McDivitt   I tell you one thing I found.- -that size boo.k and

                 that concept that we had, I think , was really good .
      White      That was just the right size.

      McDivitt   It ' s just the right size.      Their sheets are big
                 enough where you can write a.lot on them .

      White      They ' re easy to handle .
      McDivitt   They ' re small enough so they ' re easy to handle .

                 They ' re easy to stow .     They fit into the flight

                 suit.   When we launched, I had both flight sets
                 of data cards in my right lower pocket and the big

                 data book and my procedures book in my left- hand
                 lower pocket.    I had all the checklists right on

                 my spacesuit..
      White      I had one procedure book and both my cards.
      McDivitt   And both your cards .      So that between. the two of


                 ~PIDE~4TIA1

--- PAGE 125 ---
119



           us we had all the data books right on the flight

           sui~ which was just right where we wanted them.
Whit e     Another thing we did - -we hand carried this equip­

           ment down to the spacecraft to be sure it was
           there on l aunch .
McDivitt   The maps , overlays, and star charts we should

           lump all together along with all the other junk

           that we carried in the data case .
White      Let's start with the star charts.      That's easy.

           I thought the star chart was satisfactory. I
           think you used the one with less stars on it
           than I had .
McDivitt   Yes .
White      I used my own one that J fly with all the time

           and I was quite happy with it .     I think t l.is is

           exactly what you need and I don't believe you

           need to overla~ two times around, but that wasn't
           for the chart .
McDivitt   Yes, and really the flight chart, the one that
           was actually designed for the spacecraft, was de­

           signed ,30 that this swiveling out the window dis ­

           play fit on it .     It was a certain size to take care

           of that and had a lot of dead space out on the

--- PAGE 126 ---
120              C~'4fFIDE~~TIAl

                 edges .   I would have rather seen the stars ex­

                 panded more so that we could tell it.     We used two

                 polar plots of stars that were put out for the

                 Apollo thing that we picked up on our training.

                 We actually f l ew with one of the training things.

                 I took one out of my brief case.
      White      Those weren't put out by Apollo. Those were put

                 out at Oll<r request.. Remember? We asked for a--

      McDivitt   Yes, but I thought they came from the Apollo office .

      White      No, they came from our own Flight Crew S uppart .
      McDivitt   I know we requested them , but I thought that's
                 where they dug them up.
      White      No, they got them from--
      McDivitt   Okay.

      White      See, what they did is they added on all the Apollo

                 navigation stars .   They came from our own boys in
                 FCSD.

      McDivitt   Those polar charts are really the cat ' s meow.
      White      All those charts are pretty good .
      McDivitt   So I thought the star charts sure gave us all the
                 information we needed.     The maps and overlays--

                 I think we really ought to cover the maps and over­

                 lays by the experiments.     The map with the sliding

--- PAGE 127 ---
121



           overlay of the orbits, I thought was a real good

           tool.

White      Very easy, yes .

McDivitt   Yery easy to use and I am sure glad we came up

           with that .

White      I think also carrying       pre-plotted orbits on the

           · maps was also useful and stayed pretty- -

McDivitt   That ' s right .   Right at the last second we decided

           to take four maps that were glued back to back ao

           we had two sheets .     They were on a sticky- back
           which made them reasonably thick and durable .

           One of them had no orbits on it , one had one to

           22 , another one had 22 to 44, and another one bad

           44 to 66 . You could look through there and you
           could get a quick reference of where you were going

           to be at a certain time .     The times did get off,

           but you were only off a little bit .

--- PAGE 128 ---
122



      White      You can keep track of how far you're off.
      McDivitt   You knew about where you ' re going to be .     As Ed

                 sa.ys,as the time went on you could tell a.bout

                 where you ' re going to be just by knowing the cor­

                 rection .     It didn't change much .   So, we found

                 these to be pretty useful .     We didn't really get

                 to start using them until the second day .

      White      I didn ' t know you had them in there .

      McDivitt   We took them out, I guess, one time when you were

                 sleeping just for the heck of it and, my gosh, they

                 started working pretty well.
      White      I used them almost exclusively once we got them

                 out.
      McDivitt   Yes .

      White      We had a l ot of other information onboard and I

                 don't know whether we should go into all that
                 stuff now?

      McDivitt   Oh , yes , I took schematics of all the systems

                 right out of the GOH.      I didn ' t ever have to use

                 them .,but I thought it was worthwhile having them
                 along.      Everybody was getting so screwed up on

                 the water management panel and I took my notes

                 on the water management panel with me .       I had a


                  ce~~Fl0.ENJJAL

--- PAGE 129 ---
• corsiFJOEffflAL                                    123



                     couple of drawings.
         McDivitt    I had what happened when I put all those valves

                     in a lot different positions.    You know when you

                     compare something like that digital computer with

                     the water management panel you certainly think

                     the computer would be more difficult to operate .

                     But after the million conflicting descriptions we

                     had on the water management panel,I think we all

                     agree that it was the worst in the spacecraft.
8.8   Stowage

        White        Well, I guess I was the chief stower and unstower.
        McDivitt     All I did was take the food out .
        White        I thought the stowage in and out of the center

                     stowage box was probably the easiest place to get

                     in and out of .   The boxes were easy to slide in

                     and out and the stuff was easy to put in and out .

                     I felt that the right-hand wing box was tough to

                    get in and out of.     Getting in to get the bags
                     full of equipment took a little bit of time.

                    When I got to actually stowing the refuse back

                     in the right 'hand box, it was easy enough for me
                     just to reach over my left shoulder and put the

                     items in without even turning around .   It was

--- PAGE 130 ---
124



                 pretty easy to use as a trash can.     The stowage

                 of the items of equipment in the footwell, to me ,

                 was not objectionable at all during launch and

                 reentry.   The ventilation module which was stowed

                 on the left side of the right footwell was well

                 out of my way during these times and offered no

                 impairment to me whatsoever.     Something that was

                 a bit of a surprise to me was all t he equipment

                 we had in there, that we were not able to jetti­

                 son after EVA ,   I knew we were in for a bit of a

                 problem with so much equipment.    I think the stow­
                 age of the miscellaneous pieces of equipment

                 underneath your legs back up in the heel in back

                 of the stirrup area is   . pretty good s torage

                 for   almost all of the loose items during flight.

                 Jim and I had the a r ea just chucked full.
      McDivitt   This was not any big su£prise.    Remember how we
                 were talking about how we were going to put all
                 that stuff up?
      White      We were going to put a big refuse bag in there .
      McDivitt   We decided that the most likely place to put these
                 big items would be back underneath the seat be­

                 cause we weren 't going to keep our legs back

--- PAGE 131 ---
125



           there.     We never did get them back there.
White      There was no possibility to put them back there

           once we filled it up .
McDivitt   Yes, but even if we wanted to, I don't think there
           was any big desire to put them back there.
White      It would have been nice to stretch but that's

           just about all .   That would have been from time
           to time.
McDivitt   That's right .
White      I found that actually the thing that I appreciated

           the most was having a lower seat so I could actu­
           ally stretch my legs out forward than actually

           behind and bending my knees.
McDivitt   Yes, I was more interested in straight"ening my
           legs out than bending them back more .
White      I couldn ' t have done that if they hadn ' t corrected

           that seat.    I was able to get in and use the stow­
           age in the refuse box on my side fairly easily.
White      This is the rubber covered box.        Jim said his

           wasn ' t quite as easy to get into .     I had to get
           into a certain position to get back there, but it

           sure surprised me.    I thought it would be just
           about useless.

--- PAGE 132 ---
126



      McDivitt   Well, I got things out of it .     I got a defecation

                 bag out one time and I got another little bag out .

                 I don't know what else I had back there .

      White      The right hand box with the clamp l ock was easy
                 to get in and out of .   I stored things from time

                 to time in there .

      White      Yes, I found that the most useful storage area
                 that I had was the right-hand little velcro cov­

                 ered container right down by my right       knee .       I

                 kept all the slides for the cameras and the mis­

                 cellaneous little pieces of equipment in it .        I

                 felt that was a very useful container.
      McDivitt   Is that the one with the canvas cover on it?

      White      Yes, I really used that one .

      McDivitt   Yes, that was pretty nice.
      White      The periscope container I didn't use much at all .
                 I really didn't need to use it.     I kept the blood

                 pressure adapter in it throughout the whole

                 flight.
      McDivitt   The left-h8Jld aft food box actually had food in
                 it.   It was pretty difficult to get the first

                 piece out .   It was a long hard struggle, but I

                 finally got one piece out.      Once I got one piece

                 out~the rest of it was a real snap.     They had the
                  cbN~?fA!t

--- PAGE 133 ---
things taped together .     I l eft the door open the

           whole flight after we once unstowed it.      I would

           leave a meal floating out so that when I wanted

           to get a meal I would reach up and grab the meal

           that was floating loose.      I would pul l the tape

           out until I got a hold of the tape so I could

           force another meal out of the box .     Then I woul d

           cut the first meal off and we'd eat it.      I managed

           to get all the food out of the box ~ithout getting
           out of my seat.      The left-hand side box had the

           film stowed in it and it was easily accessible.
           I think the most useful stowage place that I had

           in the spacecraft was the little Volkswagen-type

           bag that we had made up and bolted on the center
           pedestal .
White      Oh , that was a jewel .
McDivitt   We kept our checklists, maps , data books , and

           procedure books in it.      When we went to sleep and
           had a change of command and we wanted to get to

           one of the pieces of equipment that the other

           gu:y had,    we almost invariably stuck it in that

           little pouch .    I really thi.nk the most useful


            i8t~Fi8~

--- PAGE 134 ---
128



                 thing that we had put on that spacecraft were

                 those little pouches.

      White      Yes, I think the pouch could even be made a little

                 bit bigger.
      McDivitt   I think it could, too.
      White      Then it could receive a little bigger item and

                 perhaps have a little more volume that it could

                 expand out to.,       I think that it was a very

                 useful item.    We used that as storage area more

                 than any other.

      McDivitt   That's right.

      White      I used the long khaki refuse bag on the side for
                 various things, but the· main thing I use it f or ,

                 once_we got the flight going,was a refuse ca...

                 I would put all my refuse in there until I got

                 a full container of it.   Then I would package it
                 up and put it back in the right .1.a.nd box.   I

                 thought it was very useful . .
      McDivitt   I used it for all kinds of things.    I stored your
                 Mae West in it, and I had some of the camera

                 equipment in it when we were doing EVA .
      McDivitt   When I got all the good pieces fished out of it,

                 I finally started putting trash in it.

--- PAGE 135 ---
129



White      We both have an interesting item on this .       Well ,
           I emptied mine out all the way , but I think you

           enter ed with it full of trash .

McDivitt   I reentered with that bag full of trash and it

           didn't tear off .

White      It was in pretty good shape .

McDivitt   It was light-weight trash .     Papers and things

           like that .

White      I have a comment on the other little trash bag ,

           I never used it .

McDivitt   Neither did I .     I would get them out and I did not
           even know where they were .     Yes , I think it ' s

           just too small .

White      Yes , it ' s just too small and I think that Volks­
           wagen pouch can be improved upon .      I think both

           right and left canvas storage bags we~e very
           adequate and should be continued .      I think i t's

           satisfactory just the way it is .

McDivitt   They could make the -Velcro strips on it a little
           longer 8Jld the Velcro strips attached to the

           spacecraft a little longer so that it didn ' t have
           the big curls on the edge .     It tended to curl i n

           and make an opening.      I never could get the thing
                                                                     '2

--- PAGE 136 ---
130



                       c l osed.

8 .8   Belts

         White         The bel t s worked satisfactorily.

          McDivitt     Yes , mine wor ked very good .

8.8    Harness

         McDivitt      Harness .     Okay .

          White        The harnes s was satisfactory .

8 .8   Life Vests

          McDivitt     Life vests.      Very good.

          White        Very good .
          McDivivitt   I might comment on those l i fe vests.      I never
                       took my life vest off my r estraint harness the

                       whole time.      It wasn't i n the way at all and I
                       was amazed that I didn't pop them.        I always pop

                       them in the simulations .

          White        I was waiting for you to pop one.       But I was sur­

                       prised with the ease I could t ake t hem of f and

                       put them on weightless.       Ther e 's just no compari­

                       son at a l l.    That's an easy task.

8.8    Waste Disposal System
          White        I thought the defecati on bags worked as well as

                       anything we had.       Ther e isn't anything you're
                       going t o do to make it go to the bottom of the

--- PAGE 137 ---
131




                 bag when you use it .    I think you should be

                 familiar with how to close the bag .      I only used

                 one bag and I think you were a two - bag man .

      McDivitt   I was a two-bag man .

      White      The stuff didn't float out of the bag or anything .

                 I would permit t he thing to remain open while I

                 used the paper.     I actually used the pa.per as kind

                 of a charging n.echanism to push t he stuff on down

                 in the bag.    Y)u 1mow like loading the cannon .

                 Then I sealed it up on top .     There was a tendency

                 for the fecal material to be up on the sticky part ,
                 which m5de tle closing not quite as nice as I

                 would like i ' to be , but I was able to close it
                 up all right      I broke t wo of the disinfectant
                 bags and I c it the bags .   There were two different

                 kinds of dis mfectantJ , One of them came in a bag

                 inside a bag and the other just came in a bag .        I
                 was a little suspicious of that one , so I cut it

                 first and I think you did that , too .
      McDivitt   I did that to a couple of mine .      I still think

                 that those ba 5s break too har d.     I hate to have

                 to cut those things before I st i ck them in there .

                 I cut one and the darned thing floated back out

                 again and I didn't notice it .      I had the bag just
                  C8MFIDE~~TI.Asl

--- PAGE 138 ---
C~MFIDE~~TIAb                                        132




           about sealed up when I noticed this thing float ­

           ing around inthe spacecraft.      I had to push

           it back down in there .

White      When I cut it, I got the stuff on me and a little

           bit around .     The two that I broke , that were

           contained inside the plastic bag, seemed to work

           all r i ght .   On the whole I was satisfactorily

           pleased with the defecation bags.       I felt also

           that the liquid was easy to work into it.        I

           think that ' s a satisfactory system.
McDivitt   You really have that knack of kneeing .

White      One thing, it is just like oleomargarine was --

           . Ha, ha!
McDivitt   A little different in coloL Ha, ha!
White      One thing t hat I want to comment on was the toilet

           paper with the darn wax job.      I did not think the

           toilet paper was satisfactory.      It had a waxy

           back so that it was like the back side of a Sears
           Roebuck Catalog.

McDivitt   That was not the side you were supposed to use.

White      I know it but the other side had such a small

           amount of absorbency .     This is why you always used
           so          darn much paper J im McDivit~   Ha , ha!

--- PAGE 139 ---
133



            I found that the tissues that we car ried in the

            little containers were very satisfact ory for the

            purpose .    I think they can leave the paper out of

            those bags and provide us with adequate tissues.

            Whil e we ' re talking about these tissues , let ' s
            go into the container .

McDivitt    That 's right .   The container .

White       Yes, the container failed .     Both of them failed in

            a similar manner .    We had tissues just loose .

   

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