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NASA-UAP-D016: Preliminary Gemini 4 Crew Debriefing, Part I, 1965

Released: June 12, 2026

This document is a preliminary transcript (Part I) derived from voice recordings of the Gemini 4 flight crew debriefing taken aboard the recovery ship,…

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--- PAGE 1 ---
DECLASSIFIED
       Authority:

      NW 91526
                                                                                               82


                                      CLASSIF!CAT:ON CHANGE
                         o_ _ __


I                       By authority of--~4,...L.11.1-...___.~~L--L-....t.-e=---1
                         hanged by U~1:i:.~1 LDate                                  1973
                                                                                                   38
                                                                                                   42,
                                                                                                  /0 0

                                                                                                  / /4-
                                          PRELIMINARY
                       GT- 4 FLIGHT CREW DEBRIEFING TRANSCRIPI'
                                             PART I




                                          Prepared By

                               Spacecraft Operat ions Branch

                               Flight Crew Support Division

                                         June 16 , 1965




                    This material contains information affecting the
                    national defense of the United States within the
                    meaning of the Espionage Laws , Title 18 . U. S . C
                    Section 793 and 794 , the transmission or revel a ­
                    tion of which in any manner to an unaut horized
                    person is prohi bi ted by law .

f                   Group 4:     Downgr ade at 3 year intervals
I                                Declassified after 12 years



                                                            NOTICE: This document may be exempt from
                                                            public disclosure under the Freedom of lnfor•
                                                            rnation Act (5 U.S.C. 552). Requests for Its ra•
                                                            lec1~e to persons outside the U. S. Government
                                                            should be handled under the provisions of
                                                            NASA Polley Cir-ecti11e 1382.2,

--- PAGE 2 ---


--- PAGE 3 ---
COI\JFIDENTIAt



                                   PREFACE


     This preliminary transcript was made from voice tape recordings

of the GT-4 flight crew debriefing conducted aboard the recovery ship,

the USS Wasp , on June 9, 1965 .

     Although all the material contained in this transcript has been

edited, the urgent need for the preliminary transcript by mission

analysis personnel precluded a thorough editorial review prior to its

publication.   Errors in this transcript will be corrected as soon as

possible and an official transcript will be published at a later date.

     This document contains a transcript of the first part of the

debriefing, during which the crew described the mission generally

from an operational viewpoint .    A preliminary transcript of the re­

mainder of the debriefing will be published by June 23, 1965.    It

will cover systems operations, operational checks, visual sightings,
experiments , pre-mission planning, mission control, and training.

--- PAGE 4 ---


--- PAGE 5 ---
TABLE OF CONTENTS

Paragraph                                                                            Page Number
1. 0   COUNTDOWN
       1 . 1 Crew Insertion . ... ................... . . .                                                        .. . 1
       1. 2   Cornmlll1ications . . . . . ............... .. ... .                                                .. .. 2
       1. 3   Crew Participation and Countdown .... .............. -..6
       1.4    Comfor t . ....................... .                      .7
       1. 5 Environmental Control System .................... ' ..... . ,9
       1. 6 Sounds ...... .                                                                                   .... 11
       1 . 7 Vibrations .. .                                                                                  . ... 13
       1. 8   Visual .. . ....... .. .                                                                        . ... 13
       1.9    Crew Station Controls and Displays                                                                          .1 5
2. 0   POWERED FLIGHT
       2. 1  Lift- Off Cues                                       ....................... 17
       2. 2 Roll Program
       2. 3 Pitch Program ... .                                                          ..... 19
       2. 4 Aerodynamics .... .                                                                20         •   •   M   •   •


       2. 5 Environmental Control System                             . .... "" ............... 20
       2. 6 Maximum g ....... .                                                                   ....... 21
       2. 7 Windshear ...... . .                                                                  . ...... 21
       2. 8 DCS Update                      ........................                  •   •   •   •   •   •   •   M.      •   22
       2. 9 Engine 1 Operation .....                                                                                      . 22
       2. 10 Engine 2 Status .. .                                                                                         .23
       2.11 Accel eration g's .. .                                                        . ........ 2 3
       2. 12 BECO ........ . ...... .                                            . ........ 24
       2. 13 Staging . . . ...... .                                .. .................... 25
       2. 14 Engine 2 Ignition                                                          . .. 25
       2. 15 RGS Initiate .... .                                                                                  ... 26
       2. 16 GO/NO GO . ............. .    ... .... ...... ....                                                   . .. 28
       2.17 Systems Status ........ .            ' ....         . ..... 28
       2 . 18 Acceleration ................... .                  . .. .. 31
       2.19 SECO. ....... .    ......................             . .... 31
       2. 20 Steering ....................................... . . . .... 32

3.0    INSERTION
       3.1 Post- S.EDO                                                                        •... 34
       3.2 SECO + 20 Seconds                                          ................            .. 35
       3.3 Insertion Activities . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 38
       ORBITAL FLIGHT
       4. 1 Sta ti on- Keeping ....... .... .. ......... .                       .......... ... 50
       4.2 Extravehicular Activities ............ .                              . ......... - .. 87

--- PAGE 6 ---


--- PAGE 7 ---
Ot her Orbital Opera tions                                                  ..... ~86
                Preretro Preparations ...                                 .........         ..... 250
5 .0   REI'ROFIRE
       5.1    T - 36 Events ... .                                               . . ............ 259
       5. 2 ~ - 22 Events .. .                                                                . ... 260
       5. 3 :5:i- 13 Events                                                                   ... 260
       5.4 :5:i- 12 Event s ... .                                                               .. 26 1
       5. 5 !R- 5 Events .. . ........ .                                                    . ... 265
       5. 6 ~R: 1 ~eennttss • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •                       .... 270
       5. 7 iir.: 0 .c, v   ••••••••••••••••••••                                             .... 273
       5 . 8 Ret r opack Jettison ........... .                                              . ... 280
       5. 9 Communicat i ons ... . ........... .                                             .••• 281

6. 0   REENTRY
       6. 1 Reentr y Parameter Update                                                       .•••• 282
       6. 2     400 K .................. .                                                  . .... 282
       6. 3     0. 4 g ................ .                                                    . . .. 284
       6.4      Accelera tion Profile                                                        ..... 290
       6. 5     Spacec raft Contr ol ........ .                                              .... 296
       6. 6     100 000 Feet . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ....... .                       ...... 296
       6. 7     50 000 Feet ............. .                                                 .. •.. 299
       6. 8     Main Chute Deployment . .                                                . ...... 302
       6. 9     CommUJ1ications . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..                                . .... 303
       6.1 0 Singl e- Point Rel ease ....                                   . ........... . .... 305
       6. 11 Pos t main Checkli st Items                                    ......... ·• ....... 306
1.0    LANDI NG AND REDOVERY
       7.1    Impact ...... .                                                              ... 310
       7. 2 Checklists                                                                     .. 313
       7. 3 Communi ca tions ...                                                           ... 314
       7.4 Systems Configuration                                        ..................... 316
       7. 5 Spacecraft Sta tus ...... . .... .                                   . ............ 320
       7.6 Post- Landing Activiti es ..... .                                 . ............... 325
       7. 7 C·omfort ............... .                                           . .. . .. .... ... 325
       7. 8 Recovery For ce Personnel                                                            .. 326
       7.9      Egress ......... . .. .                                                         . . 327
       7. 10 Survival Gea r ..... .                                                          ...• 328
       7. 11 Crew Pi ckup ......... .                                                   . ....... 328

--- PAGE 8 ---


--- PAGE 9 ---
CO ►~FIDE►~TIAb.



                             1.0 COUNTDOWN

1.1 Crew Insertion

         White       The only problem during insertion was that I

                     fogged up again in my suit before we got the fans

                     on.     I think I'm just going to always fog up in

                     that suit of mine.      We turned the fans on quick,

                     but with the visors closed it doesn't go out.

         McDivitt    We did have a problem with crew insertion on the

                     Wet Mock and I think we had that probably pretty

                     well taken care of.      They put us on the suit

                     loops and didn't turn the fans on.      Normally you
                     wait for a clearance from the 1:t>acecraft Test

                     Conductor before you throw any switches. Well,

                     after we almost "died" of carbon dioxide poison­
                     ing during this +,est~ we got this     matter

                     clarified.     As soon as we got in the spacecraft

                     and one of us was on the suit loop, we would go
                     ahead and cut the switches on to put us on two

                     fans.     We did this during insertion in the Wet

                     Mock.     It really went well.

         White       We really went for a long time in Wet Mock.        I
                     was beginning to wonder if I was going to have to

                     open my visor.     I was really uncomfortable.
                      COt74 FIDEt~TIAsb-

--- PAGE 10 ---
2



          McDivitt     But everything worked out okay on this one .
          White        Yes.
          McDivitt     The timing was excellent , I thought .      I didn't

                       think we had any prob l em at all .

          White        No.    I don ' t believe they missed a stroke on the
                       insertion.

1 . 2 Communications

          White        I think the communications were pretty well
                       worked out, Jim?
          McDivitt     Right .   One thing, the last three minutes or four

                       minutes, we got a little confused about who was

                       talking to who .   I was getting the Spacecraft
                       Test CJnductor , the Booster Test CJnductor and

                       the CAP COM at the same time .
          White        We got a split count , too, on lif't--off.
          McDivitt     The f irst three or four minutes I was hearing the

                       B)os ter Tast C?nductor .   I heard what was going
                       on on his loop , and I was listening to him get

                       checks in f r om all of the guys .    I really wasn ' t
                       getting a clue a s to what was going on .      I was

                       supposed to be getting the booster clues from the

                       test conductor .   I was supposed to find out when
                       the engines were going to gimbal and when they


                       -€9·NFl9E~TIA;t

--- PAGE 11 ---
COl>J~IDENIIA~                                           3


           were going to open the prevalves and stuff.          I

           wasn't getting it from him .      We were getting a

           lot of other information that made a lot of sense

           to the Booster Test C :>nductor, but not an awful

           lot to us .     There were cal l - outs l ikeVSequence
           05003 complete." Well, thi s just didn' t mean any­

           thing to us .     On top of this we had the Spacecraft
           ~es t Conductor calling out the times , and super­

           imposed on all of this was Al Shephard , the Cape

           CAP COM , calling out events that he was reading

           off that went on at certain specified times .            He
           called out','Stage 1 prevalves Vand we could hear the

           fue l gushing downstairs and the whole booster

           rumbling.     He called out ','Stage 2 prevalves','and

           you could hear the same thing all over again.             I

           thought t hat was a lot more meaningful than the

           test conductor comments.

White      I think that was wrong, the way they were doing it .

           I think we weren't supposed to be on any loop

           except CAP COM at that time .
McDivitt   Well, I think what happened was that we got this

           thing over-coordinated.       Al was going to give us
           all this information, but then as a result of

           GT-3, (Gus and Jolm said they didn ' t get enough

           -t:ON FI0 Er\JTl~L

--- PAGE 12 ---
4              r<3 e I<i Flt Et>I TI Rt
               information about the boosters) they put this in­

               formation on the test conductor ' s loop too .      We

               ha.d too many guys talking .     I think if just CAP

               COM talked from thr ee minutes on down we would

               be all right .

    White      This is the way I thought it was going to happen,

               and then from three minutes on down it really got
               busy with the yak , yak, yak of everybody talking .

    McDivitt   I don't lmow whether we got off the Booster ~st

               C)nductor's loop or not, but at final countdown ,

               Al gave me      2 minutes , 1 1/2, 1, 30 , 20 , 10 , 9 ,

               8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2 , 1 .     I got a similar count

               from the Spacecraft Test C~nductor but it turned

               01 ·. t that they were a second out of sequence on

               the countdown and Al was giving me 10 and our
               Spacecraft Test Conductor was giving me 9.         So it

               went ten- nine , nine - eight, eight - seven .   They

               were at the same t ime .     All I knew was that we
               were getting close to engine ignition and then it

               started .    So , we got a little over-communicated
               there .     I think t hey kept us adequately informed

               on the hold .     As a matter of fact , I ' d say we got

               over- informed there at the end .      We had too many
               guys keeping us informed and I t hink the pendulum

               <Ol<:JFIDel'4TIAl

--- PAGE 13 ---
5


           swung from the GT-3 flight where nobody got in­

           formed of anything over to our flight where we

           got i nformed by three different people about the

           same event .

White      On our flight, too, we were really more
           aware of t he problem than those people were.       We

           could sit right here and see the gantry come

           down and stop, that was r eally the only problem
           they had in the whole count .

McDivitt   I don't think radio discipline is a problem, Each

           guy was disciplined on his own channel .   They were
           conducting their tests on their own channel .       But

           we were lis tening to three different communica­

           tors at the same time.   We should have had only

           one .   I think probably what we will need to do is

           to get to about T-3, and then just cut in the
           CAP COM.
White      That was the way it wa.s planned to be, I thought .

           That's the way Al planned it.
McDivitt   That's correct.    I think, because there had been

           some lack of information on GT-3, that it some­
           how had been written into the SEDR so that we

           were also on the Booster Test Conductor 's MOPS,
           so that we were also getting his countdown.     I

            COrq--pf0f:Nfl1tt

--- PAGE 14 ---
6



                     think CAP COM, 'alone, would have been sufficient .

                     One further comment , I had to turn my ·11HF volume

                     all the way up to hear anybody .       I was at max .

                     There we were sitting right on the pad , talking

                     to a gu:y two miles away, and there I was with the

                     volume full up .     It didn ' t give me much confi ­

                     dence as to reception I was going to get when I

                     was 200 miles away , or three or four or five

                     hundred miles away .     I thought that the volume

                     control on the radio was inadequate.

         White       We were wondering what we were going to have when

                     we got up a hundred miles .

         McDi vitt   That's right.      At max volume we didn't have enough

                     and at minimum volume it didn't shut it off.            We

                     will cover this later.

1.3 Crew Participation and Countdown
         McDivitt    I think it was just about right .      I don' t think

                     we were over worked and I think we had enough to

                     do to keep us busy.
         White       Actually, all we really made was a check of

                     switches .   There wasn ' t really too much else .

                     Having the back-up crew run that midcount was the

                     the right solution.      I wouldn't have wanted to

                     participate in anymore of t he countdown than I

                     -COt<JFtDEt'4flJ<l

--- PAGE 15 ---
€O ► 4FIDE ► ~TI/>,~                              7


                     did.

          McDivitt   That's an excellent point.    The flight crew's

                     participation should be the final count, not the

                     midcount and precount.    It doesn't tire the prime

                     crew out doing a lot of chores that they don't

                     really have to do.    I think this is a good pro­

                     cedure.

1.4 Comfor t

          White      Initially, the first 20 or 30 minutes, I was

                     squirming around and I felt a little uncomfor­

                     table.    But after I had been in for 30 or 40
                     minutes I didn't feel there was a real restric­

                     tion on staying for several more hours.     I would

                     have been very disappointed if they had said,

                     "Well you have been in there long enough and we
                     will work on this gantry and try it again tomor­

                     row."     I would have been happy to stay there

                     several more hours while they fixed the gantry

                     instead of pulling me out.

                     After an hour and 40 minutes,which is the end of
                     the normal countdown,I didn't feel uncomfortable.

                     We sat in the simulator and were a lot more un­

                     comfortable than this.     I didn't feel uncomfor­
                     table.     I had a chance to take a couple of little

                      CO ► 4FIDE~~TIA~

--- PAGE 16 ---
8
                COl'IFIDE~4TIAt
               naps .    I noticed Jim was napping too .
    McDivitt   Yes .    I concur with F.d, although I don't want

               to get carried overboard.     We shouldn't scrub

               due to crew fatigue .

    White      I think it is up to the crew.      If the crew is un­

               comfortable they should come down.      But I don't

               think he should say, "Okay, two hours and 30

               minutes .   You cut this off. ", because it is an
               operational procedure.
    McDivitt   When I first got assigned to the crew I always

               fe l t one of the toughest things to do would be

               laying back for an hour and 40 minutes or so

               prior to launch .    The time we spent in the simu­
               lator laying on our back, I thought to be a very

               uncomfortable position.     As we went through all

               the training and testing at McDonald , and again
               at the Cape ,       ;ny back got more callouses on it.

               I got used to laying with my feet over my head .

               At launch time I wasn't a bit tired from laying
               on my back .
    White      This is brought out in one of our last simulations ,

               where we ran the whole four hour simulation and

               we forgot to have them tilt us up to 30 degrees.
               We just got used to running that way,
               COl"I P"te E~~Tl,\l

--- PAGE 17 ---
€Otr4FIDEttftAl                                        9

          McDivi tt   That ' s right, I just don't think we should

                      scrub the flight because of fatigue.I don ' t think we

                      should do that.   We weren ' t approaching this point.
          White       We had a long way to go.
1 . 5 Environmental Control System

          McDivitt    I think we ought to get this water management

                      panel squared away and everybody figure out what

                      we are supposed to do with those switches.      I

                      don ' t think we should be arguing about where the

                      switches are supposed to be on the launch pad.           If

                      I hadn't asked somebody where the waste manage­
                      ment switches should be we would have probably
                      launched with it in · EVAPORATOR.      I knew that
                      i t wasn't supposed to be in the evaporator .       At

                      one of the ten thousand briefings we got on it, we
                      were told it shouldn't be there .   We ought to get·

                      this kind of stuff squared away before launch day.

                      Thirty minutes before lift-off we were arguing
                      about where that switch was supposed to be.
         White        I wasn't confident that they knew where they
                      wanted that switch to be.
         McDivitt     Well, I didn ' t think we should have it in the eva­
                      porator.   So, I think that water panel could have

                      cost as much as a wee~s slip on our launch because

                       coNFIDENTIAt-

--- PAGE 18 ---
10
                  €01'1FIE>Et<ITtAt
                 they didn't know where to put those valves and

                 it's only got three valves on it .       It ought to be

                made much simpli er than it is .       I think they

                 should get that squared away before the next

                 flight.     F,d and   I knew where we wanted it.        We

                wanted it off and the other two switches in

                NORMAL and leave it alone .        That's what we flew

                with .     That's the way it ough t to be fixed .
     White      We can get canned , though, for not flying with it
                in the right position by the checklist .            It

                didn't say that on the checklist           Every check
                 list we got was different .
     McDivitt   That ' s right! Fach one was different .      Fi nally

                we decided we were going to do it as w.e did and
                left it thr ough out the whol e flight .      Evel;'y­

                thing worked fine .       We had ECS briefings by a

                mul titude of peoples from MAC       including the
                guys who designed it.        Everyone of them dis­

                agreed ,     It probably started out to be one of the

                simplest things in the whole spacecraft .        By the

                time they got t hrough confus ing us with it, I
                got the feeling nobody knew what was s_i,,.pposed to

                happen to it .     I consider this the most danger­
                ous of all.

                '€ 0 l<I F' IE> Et-q ftAt

--- PAGE 19 ---
11



          White       I was convinced of that, too, after the mix-up

                      in putting all the water in the lithium hydroxide

                      tan.ks.

          McDivitt    There would have been about a 30 minute four-day

                      mission.

          McDivitt    The people that built the thing don't know how

                      it is supposed to go .   They had better decide

                      this and let us know.    I felt that George Roe at

                      the Cape knew what was going on except the Cape

                      personnel got the valves in the wrong position and

                      almost lost the lithium hydroxide canister full

                      of water with no water in the tanks.     I ' m not

                      pointing a finger at George Roe • I think he' ·s

                      pret.ty knowledgeable about the system.. Maybe

                      somebody just wasn't following directions.     But

                      somebody ought to find out about the water
                      management system and make it clear to everybody

                      how it is supposed to be operated.

1.6   Sounds
           McDivitt   You can hear the prevalve~ both first and second

                      s tages.   The prevalves and the fluid gushing are

                      very loud noises comparable to the engine gim--
                      baling. I wasn't really aware that they were              ~


                      going to be that loud.

                       C-0t~FIDf~qflAb

--- PAGE 20 ---
12              'COI\IFIDE~◄ llAl

     White      I got that feeling when I read Gus and John ' s

                debriefing .

     McDivitt   Did you?      I didn't .    I got the impression that it

                was going to be a much quieter noise .
     White      Well, the whole noise level of the engine girnbal­

                ing      was louder than I thought it was going to

                be.     It surprised me .
     McDivitt   Yes . Engine gimbaling was much louder than I

                heard before .     We heard this during Wet Mock and

                during precount and at midcount.        You can hear

                those engines gimbal around; they really shake t he

                spacecraft .     But, I really wasn't prepared for

                the big noise that the prevalves make, and such

                a long noise as that fuel gushed down to the

                bottom.      I guess that was what it was.
                I didn't like t he sounds and vibrations we got

                when they raised and        lowered the gantry.
     White      It shook the whole spacecraft .
     McDivitt   It shook the whole spacecraft--did you notice how

                it never came up straight?        The spacecraft was

                supposed to line up kind of like this and then
                wham!     I had visions of them knocking us off and

                laying us flat on the ground before we were
                launched ,

                 co~,Fl0Et'4TIAI:

--- PAGE 21 ---
cor:,-~FIDEl'~TIA I                                   13


1 , 7 Vibrations

          White      Those are closely associated with the sounds.

          McDivitt   Yes .     I think that the engine gimbaling makes a

                     tremendous vibration in the spacecraft and pre­

                     valves on opening and make a tremendous vibration.

                     The gantry going back and forth vibrated the

                     spacecraft.      I don ' t think there is anything else ,
                     do you?

          White      No.

1,8 Visual

          White      Well, you can sure see the gantry lower and the

                     whi te room disappear.     That is about all you can

                     see besides the sky.

          McDivitt   That's pretty impressive.       That's when I sort of
                     got excited,when the gantry went down.        That ' s a

                     new realm.

          White      I thought they were going to launch me.

          McDivitt   You're sitting there by yourself       then, instead

                     of all those people milling around.
                     I do want to make one other comment on this visual

                     thing .     We did Wet Mock about one or two o'clock
                     in the afternoon.      The sun was shining right in

                     the window, almost straight down, such that the
                     sun came across my visor from about just at the

                      GOt~FIDEMTIM

--- PAGE 22 ---
14               t:Ol-<IFIDEt'4T IAt
                bridge of my nose on down .      I had a tremendous

                amount of reflection inside the helmet, and I had

                a great amount of difficulty seeing the instru-­

                ment panel .    As a matter of fact, I'm not sure I

                could have seen the instrument panel at all .

                ~ose first few seconds there are extremely cri­

                tical on launch.     You have to be able to see those

                tank pressure     sages .   We ought to keep this in

                mind for those late afternoon launches .

     White      That is a problem , but the g loads are so small

                at this time you could a l most forget ab1ut look­

                ing up .

     McDivitt   Did I fly like this for       awhile during l aunch?

     White      I don't think so but you could have, The g load is

                so small.

     McDivitt   I'm not sure whether I did or not.

     White      "'his is what we had to do during Wet Mock.      We

                had to put our hand up and cover the window to
                look down at our instruments to see them ,

     McDivitt   I 'm not sure I didn ' t launch that way .

     White      I wouldn't be surprised if you did .

     McDivitt   I don't think I launched that way, but as we
                tilted over and we got in the sun, I think I put

                my hand up for awhile .

                 COMftDEl'1 I IAI.

--- PAGE 23 ---
15


           White       Well, if the g's are so low that--
           McDivitt    When sun gets in your face you can't see the in­
                       strument panels because they are just too dark .
           White       The sun gets in your eyes.    The point that Jim

                       was making is towards a late-in-the-day launch,
                       which we might have later in the program , there

                       might be a bit of a problem of seeing the instru­

                       ments during launch.   Unless they put something

                       up, which I really don't think you want to d~ You

                       are just going to have to put your arms up and

                       shield the sun out and concent~ate on your in­
                       struments or you won't see them .   They are just
                       gone.

                       There is probably a point even in an early morn­

                       ing trajectory as you start to pitch over where

                       the sun will come right in your window and you

                      won't be able to see your instruments unless you
                       shield your eyes.
1,9   Crew Station Controls and Display
          White        I found the switches all where they were supposed
                       to be and the cockpit all set up.
          McDivitt    So did I, except the comment I made on the water
                      management system.   They didn't have the control

                      where it was supposed to be.    At least, they had

--- PAGE 24 ---
16
             ~CNFIOEt~TIAt
             it in the place where everybody was arguing about

             whether or not it should be ,

     White   I certainly appreciated the work the backup crew

             did getting the cockpit all set up fo r us .    Every­

             thing was ready to go when we stepped in.      That ' s

             the way it should be.




              COl<:tll10E~4TIA L

--- PAGE 25 ---
€Ot◄ Fl9ENllAl                                        17




                               2.0 POWER FLIGHT

2.1   Lift- Off Cues

           McDivitt    CAP COM gave lift-off, about as good a cue as you

                       can get .

           White       Wasn 't any question either.     Boy, you could feel

                       the first little motions of the booster as it

                       went up .    It was really great!



           McDivitt    I think you could feel the acceleration at re­
                       lease.      There wasn't a doubt in my mind that we

                       were loose.

           White       That 's right.     I don't know if I could feel the

                       bolts or hear them .

           McDivitt    As a matter of fact, it seemed to steady out a

                       little bit.      The vibrations seemed to decrease

                       a little. Pretty impressive!
                       Not much vibration at lift-off.      Very low.

           White       Very low.      I got vibrations later on , though,

                       didn't you?

            McDivitt   Yes .
                       Noise.      There wasn't much noise, was there?

            White      No.     There was less than I had expected.

            McDivitt   Noise wasn't a cue to lift-off.      Noise was there

--- PAGE 26 ---
18



                 if you were bolted down all day long.        I don't

                 think the noise changed a bi t at lift- off.
     White       You could see the visual cues out the window .

                You were watching your gages, Jim .
     McDivitt   Were t here clouds out there?
     White      No, but I could see it in the clear blue sky.
     McDivitt   Could you?

     White      Yes .    I could see the motion.
     McDivitt   Okay .    Wel l, I couldn't.
     White      I was looking out ,
     McDivitt   I saw a little cloud go by and then I didn ' t see
                any more clouds at all,
     White      It was beautiful!
     McDivitt   The event timer s t a rted just like it should,        Of
                course , that 's the best display inside the space­

                craft for lift-off.     The event timer starts , and
                it did,
     White      We got both clocks started with the t ime hack.         I

                had a watch hack on lift-off and the ...         handle
                going.    I knew when the engine ignited , within

                half a second accuracy.        Three seconds later I

                was waiting for the lift-off and it came right at
                three seconds ,
     McDivitt   We could tell ignition , too .     We could hear the
                '€0 ► ~FIDEJ>1TJAL

--- PAGE 27 ---
19

                        things go.

             White      I agree with you.     I knew we weren ' t going to hold

                        it when that lift-off went.
2·. 2   Ro ll Program

             McDivitt   Roll program came in at ten seconds just like it

                        was supposed to.     I t was smooth, and it was just

                        the way it was planned, on at ten seconds and went
                        out at twenty seconds.     Could you see it roll

                        out the window?
             White      You can see everything out the window, I think.
             McDivitt   You can probably tell by the way the sun rays are
                        moving, can't you?
            White       Yes, by change in lighting.     The right seat has

                        a better view.     You have to wa tch the guages so
                        closely.
            McDivitt    I didn ' t even look out the window.
            White       I know you didn't.
2. 3    Pitch Program

            McDivitt    Pitch program started just like it was supposed

                        to, at twenty three seconds.     Pitched over the
                        proper amount, the pitch needles looked like
                        they were hanging in there all the way.
            White       You could see the booster pitch definitely, and

                        that was mainly due to a change in the lighting.

--- PAGE 28 ---
20                      co~~FIDE~~TIAt:
2 ,4   Aerodynamics

            McDivitt   We were getting aerodynamic noise, which built up

                       to max q .     We got some pretty good vibrations at
                       max q .

           White       That's where I had the most vibrations .         It was
                       just shaking like this .

           McDivitt    It was vibrating and noisy.
           White       That was the loudest noise we received the whole
                       flight.
           McDivitt    Right after max q it got very qui et .
           White       This is where I had the most vibrations .        There
                       were more than I expected.
           McDivitt    Yes, me too. You can ' t simulate this in a simula­

                       tor .     You get more vibrations than you do noise .

                       The only thing they have in the simulator is

                       noise, they don't have vibrations .        It was pretty

                       loud and the spacecraft was actually shaking
                       around a lot. It was really vibrating.
           White       Yes, it was .     More than I expected .
           McDivitt    The whole thing was really going at it .       Almost

                       like a F-80 or a T-33 at a.bout      0.8 Mach.
           Whi te      Very good analogy .
2. 5 Environmental Control System
           White       The cabin started venting shortly after lift-off

                        ~O~◄ FltJEf<tftAL

--- PAGE 29 ---
21


                      and continued so until about 40 seconds and sta­

                      bilized out at 5. 5 and I made my call in.      I
                      think I might have called i n on RECORD .

           McDivitt   You did.

           White      I switched and made the final call at about 1: 10,

                      I realized I called on REDORD and switched over,

           McDivitt   How high did it go? Did it go to 5.5?

           White      5. 5 and it stayed right there .   And then I

                      noticed later on it progressively leaked off until

                      it got to 4.9 where it st ayed.    The suit? There
                      really isn ' t anything to say about the suit.

           McDivitt   No, I   don' t have anything to say about the suit .

                      It oi:erated like it was supposed to .

2.6 Maximum....q
           McDivitt   The noise built up gradually until we got to max

                      q , then it just dropped off.

           White      The deterioration of the noise was almost instan-

                      taneous.
           McDivitt   Very quick,   It wasn ' t instantaneous , but it was

                      very quick.

           White      In fact, it startled me when we separated .

2 . 7 Windehea.r

           McDivitt   I didn't notice anything on the rate needles that

                      had anything to do with the windshea.r      I couldn't

--- PAGE 30 ---
22                          eot~FIDE~~"f1At
                       pick out windshear • on them.      How about you , Ed?

           White       No .

           McDivitt    Did you see any attitudes?
           White       No .

           McDivitt    No big divergences from windshea r .

2. 8   DC~ Updates
           White       We got both of our ros updates right on time-­

                        H'45   a.nd 2 : 25 ,

           McDivitt    No comment .      Ed is in charge of ros updates .
           White       I ' m the button pusher.     I do everything about

                       pushing the buttons .
           McDivitt    I can do this with this little stick.
           White       You can do it unless I have my knee over it .
2. 9 Engin,®. 1 Operation

           McDivitt    They operated the way they were supposed to as

                       far as I could tell .      The tank pressures stayed

                       up fi~       on both     Engine 1 and Engine 2.      There
                       was never any doubt in my mind that they were

                       going to stay up there .      There weren't any of
                       those things like we saw in those simulations

                       where they came on down pretty low on the gages
                       when they were supposed to be at 18 or 15. There

                       wasn't anything like that .      They just stayed on
                       up there .

                            €0t'1Flf7ENf 1Al

--- PAGE 31 ---
23




           White          Just where they were supposed to be.
           McDivitt       Yes.   I followed them a couple of times and said
                          they were staying up fine.    They were way up.

                          There wasn't any problem there,
2.10   Engine 2 Status

           McDivitt       Second stage pressure stayed right on up there

                          very high.    Just the way they were supposed to.

                          There wasn't any problem there,     They didn't

                          decay all during the first stage.
2.11   Acceleration g's
          McDivitt        They weren't bad and I don't know where they went
                          to on the g meter.
          White          Just like riding in an old saddle.
          McDivitt       That's right.     It's very comfortable .    Steady on-
                         set .
          White          Not very long.     Gee, we were below--
          McDivitt       Wait a second.     This might be a good place to

                         cover the pogo.     I felt the pogo just prior to
                         staging, from about 2:15 on to 2:30 .       I could
                         feel pogo.
          White          How much were you getting?
          McDivitt       Very little,     I could just feel it pull like this.
                         Did you feel it at all?

--- PAGE 32 ---
24                  - COt~FIDEt ◄ TIM
         White      No .

         McDivitt   I could feel it .    It wasn't uncomfortable enough

                    where I had to l ift my head or anything.       I

                    wasn't thinking about a pogo at all .       It wasn't

                    like I was trying to sit there and think about it.

                    But as we were going along I could feel this vi­

                    bration.    And then it just crossed my mind, well

                    t here is pogo, and then we went on to staging.

                    But it wasn ' t bad at all .   The amplitude must

                    have been--

         White      You were paying more attention to your clocks
                    while I was watching the system ,gages and I

                    wasn't really aware of the times that were going

                    on.    I had my eyes- -
         McDivitt   It came around 2: 15 or so and lasted to about 2:30.

                    Maybe it was 2: 10 or 2:05 , but it wasn't bad .
         White      We had one area that I will get into later that I

                    haven't told you about and that I didn't like.
        McDivitt    Oh .   So , I think we hit the pogo and the g ,.s .
2.12 BEX;O

        McDivitt    Engine shut down properly.      The lights came on.

                    Engine~- 2 light went out and the Engine 1 lights
                    went out.    Just the way it was supposed to at

                    B~O and staging.      Two Stage 1 lights ON , Stage 2
                      EOt<I flf)Et ◄ Tl1'c b

--- PAGE 33 ---
COt ◄FIB~1'1llAl                                  25


                       light OFF, Stage 1 lights OFF.

           White      At that time I realized that we were going to

                       feel the pyros and stuf'f--feel the separation.       It

                       was a very distinct feeling when we sepa r a ted .    Of

                      course, we immediately dropped in the thrust .

                      There wasn't any question,we had a good separation,

                       in my mind .   This is just the way it was for all

                       of our separations.    Ev-erytime we separated, it

                       was very clear that was what had happened.
           McDivitt   Oh, yes, there wasn't a:ny doubt about it when

                       that first stage shut off--Voom!
2. 13   Staging

           McDivitt   Staging was just as it should have been.
2. 14 Engine 2 I gnition

           McDivitt   Engine 2 started right on up.     Like I mentioned

                      earlier~the light went out and the tank pressure

                      went down just a tad, but it stayed way up there,

                      about two or three times as high as was necessary
                      for staging.     It never really did decrease.    It

                      stayed up around 45 or 50 psi, and we need 20 for

                      staging, so--
           White      I couldn ' t hear anything.
           McDivitt   Didn't you hear the engine?
           White      No.    I was listening but it still was quiet.

                       €Ot~FIDENllAL --

--- PAGE 34 ---
26                    'COl'4FIDEl'ff IA-t
          McDivitt    I didn't really get much of a cue out of it at all,

                      except the lights went out and I could feel a

                      li t tle bit of acceleration.

          Whit e      The acceleration decreased.     Another thing I

                      didn't get--I got absolutely no pitch-up associ-·

                      ated with the--the way the centrifuge does you at

                      the end of an acceleration. I think that is

                      associated with the cab on--

          McDivitt    Yes .   I think that's the way they rotate t hose

                      gimbals when you come on down.     If they rotate

                      them a certain way you can get that pitching-up-­

          White       A very safe forward-type deceleration.

          McDivi tt   I think that pitching up on the centrifuge is not

                      a malfunction.    It ' s just the programing that's
                      hooked into the gimbals during the stop program.

                      You've got to get them all going the same way so
                      that you keep the vectors through you .     During

                      l aunch the vector is right t hrough you.    It 's not

                      varying around , but in the shut-down on the cen­

                      trifuge those darn gimbals aren't a lways syn­

                      chronized together .   They get shifted back there
                      and it gives you that peculiar sensation.

2 . 15 RGS Initiate
          McDivitt    Well, I was really watching closely but my rate

--- PAGE 35 ---
needles just barely changed .    We mus t not have

            had any errors at a l l .

White       Yes , I got a full error.

McDivit t   Did you have a full error?

White       Yes, my pitch err or went al l the way down , and

            then it just steered slowly right back up .       Re­

            member you--
McDivitt    You did call and tell me you had a saturated-­

            Di d you call saturated , or did you say we had a

            bi g one?

White       I called it saturated, I believe .
McDivitt    That ' s right .

White       I called a saturated error and then I called you

            that it was steering back to zer o .

McDivitt    Yes .   I remember that you did ca ll that .



White       That ' s the way they showed this on the plot , t ha t
            i t would saturate there , am very quickly it

            s eemed to gradually steer right back up .
McDivitt    The steering rates that went in were on the order

            of less than half a degree/second .

White       They were very low.
McDivitt    Very , very low because I was on       high scale .

            The needle just barely devia ted at all at RGS

             GO~JFIDEN"flAl

--- PAGE 36 ---
28


                          initiate.

            White         It was beautiful steering.

            McDivitt      Nominal, nominal, nominal, except like that

                          saturation on the error needle, but we have been

                          briefed on that.

            White         That ' s right .   That ' s something to be expecterui

            McDivitt      When did it saturate?

            White         Right at staging. No, right at guidance initiate .

            McDivi tt     Oh , okay.    It saturated right there .

            White         Right there at guidance initiate, which is what

                          you ' d except.

2. 16   GO/ NO GO
            McDivitt      They said they were GO and I said we were GO .

                          There wasn't much problem.       Ed and I had been

                          checking ba ck and forth on the systems .      I knew

                          they were all right .

2, 17   Systems Sta tus
            White         The systems were all pretty good .       There was only

                          one I didn ' t like and that was the stack readings

                          on the main ammeters .     One was reading about 28
                          and the other was reading about 14 ,       But I felt

                          that this was a ssociated with bringing the batter­

                          ies on.      I went through and checked everything.
                          Everything was readi ng properly.       The control bus

--- PAGE 37 ---
and main bus were all reading all right.     I felt

           it was just a misbalance of loading.     I talked to

           somebody previous to this time and it was
           explained to me that this could happen this way.

           I felt perhaps it was in the adapter batteries-­

           would feed through on one of the stacks causing

           one of them to take more than the other.

McDivitt   Yes.     You could have gotten into the knee of an

           adapter--

White      This is what I had figured- - that a couple of my

           adapter aatteries were unbalanced, causing this

           to occur.     I also had seen this on the simulator

           quite a few times.

McDivitt   When did the unbalance start? When we got in

           they were-•      As soon as we were on internal

           power?

White      Right.     And I didn't feel this was the time to

           talk about it.     It was still under 30 amps, which

           was my point.     So I didn't bring it up.

McDivitt   You didn't want to worry me?

White      I didn't want to worry you and I didn't want any­
           body on the ground to start hollering about it .

McDivitt   You should have written me a note.

White      I did feel that this was exactly what it was--

            ~Q~~ftE)EN:rJAL-

--- PAGE 38 ---
30


                that it was adapter batteries.     That was the only

                abnormal type of indication we had in the systems.

                They were all real good .

                Well, we had good communications with the ground

                during powered flight.

     McDivitt   We had pretty good communications.      I called the

                "Roll Program", and nobody answered me .      I said,

                "Well , to heck with it, maybe they just aren't

                ge t;ti.ng through."   Then I was just starting to

                call Roll Program complete when Gus called and

                said,"Did you get the Roll Program?"      Now that was

                the only transmission I made that wasn't acknow­

                ledged.

     White      Yes, I heard you calling, too.

     McDivitt   So , if they lost communications it must have been

                right at the 10-seconds t i me , and it should have
                been for l ess than 10 seconds.     It couldn't have

                been for more than 20 seconds.      I heard the count­

                down to lift-off and I heard Gus call and ask me
                if I had the Roll Program started .     This was a

                little bit less t han 20 seconds-- around 18 or 19

                seconds.    That is the only period of time I

                didn' t hear anybody I should have hea rd .    So , if
                we lost communications, that was where it was.

--- PAGE 39 ---
31

2.18 Acceleration

            McDivitt   Well we got up to 7 1/2 g 's.     The acc eleration

                       wasn ' t bad at all.    I guess when you are really
                       interested in what you are doing like on the boost

                       or reentry, those g 's don't mean anything.        I
                       don't like to ride the centrifuge .       7 1/2 g 's is
                       7 1/2 g 's on the centrifuge, but on the booster-­
            White      My vision was crystal clear .

            McDivitt   Me, too .   I wasn't even breathing hard .     I wasn ' t
                       huffing or :pui'fing or anything .     I was just laying
                       <there relaxed .

            White      Particularly on this one, The acceleration burn
                       during powered flight and insertion was very light .
2 . 19   SECO
            McDivitt   SECO occurred as it should have on my clock.           Ed

                       thought it ~s about--what did you say it was?
            White      I thought it was a second or so early and it

                       concerned me because that meant we were going to

                       have to burn.      So I was quite expecting to hear
                       a big 6V come up from the ground.        There is no

                       question on that SECO either.        It shuts off and

                       you get that linear straight deceleration.
            McDivitt   The thing that surprised me was that we weren ' t

                       talking about it at all.     We were just going as

                       , CONFID·EN"TtAt

--- PAGE 40 ---
32


                       straight as an arrow when that thing shut off .

            White      There weren't any oscillations or roll .

2 . 20   Steering
            McDivitt   I was ge tting a sinusoidal oscill ation on my rate

                       needles , and I don ' t know now whether it was

                       pitch and yaw .      I cal l ed it out a t the time , to

                       you a:nyway, Eli .

            White      Right .    And my attitude arrows were- -

            McDivitt   Your a ttitude arrows were right on?        Okay.    But I

                       was getting an oscillation, very small, about

                       plus or minus a quarter degree in rates .           Not so
                       that the needle was ac tuall y moving back and for th

                       across the dots.       It was pretty obvious that it
                       was .     Now, I sort of felt that I coul d feel that

                       movement a li tt l e bi t, like this , but not annoy­
                       ingly and certainly the stabilization was holding

                       i t close enough.      But it wasn ' t that the rate
                       needles were just constantly oscillating back and

                       forth.      It seems to me it was in pitch but I'm not

                       really sure .     A booster pitch,

             Whi te    The attitude error needles were the only deviation we
                       had at any time .      Yaw was just about nominal all

                       the time.      We had the pitch deviation at guidance

                       initiate.      It went to full scale and steered right

                       • COt~Ft0ENflAL

--- PAGE 41 ---
33


           back in, and also right at the end we had, in

           pitch, a little bit of a pitch-down needle indi­

           cation which increased to no more than about a

           degree at booster shutdown.

McDivitt   You got about a degree,then,on shut down?

White      Just about a degree.

McDivitt   Yes.     I kept glancing over to see how you were
           doing,    They were always right near the center for
           me.
White      Yeah.    Right near the end they trailed do,.m just

           a little bit.     I 'd be interested to see what the

           ground thought on t his.
McDivitt   Yes. You'll have to go over and look.     I'm sure
           they have them.




            €6Nft[:)ENTI.AL

--- PAGE 42 ---
34



                              3.0 INSERTION
3,1   Post- SECO

           McDivitt   Yes .   There was a Post-SECO.        In the period be­

                      tween SEX:!O and SECO + 20 seconds, I unstowed the
                      maneuver controller.       I don ' t know where our

                      attitudes were .      They were the same as they were

                      a t SEX::O , and it was about 20 degrees pitch-down,

                      wasn ' t it?    The rates during this period were on

                      the order of less than a half a degree/s econd.

                      We really had a period of from SECO to SECO + 30 .
                      So, duri ng this time I actually fired the trans­

                      lations thrusters at least two times in one axis

                      to kill off the rate in t hat axis, and I think it

                      was probably the booster yaw or spacecraft pitch
                      where I act ually fired the U,rusters once or

                      twice to bring the rates back .          It might have

                      been the other way around.         But, we didn't jetti­

                      son the fairings then .         I did unstow the maneuver

                      controller and the att itude was the booster burn­

                      out attitude and the rates were very low, less

                      than a half a degr ee/second .
          White       I   think      we   mentioned    prior   to   this
                      time the feeling that we came off a little half-
                      (Q~~IQFNTIAL

--- PAGE 43 ---
35


                           cocked off the       second stage.

3. 2   SECO + 20 Seconds

           McDivitt        We were going to $ay on the booster until SECO +

                           30 instead of SECO + 20 .    At 20 seconds the IVI ' s

                           started displaying and I read them off as 20 for­

                           ward, 11 right, and 5 down.

           White           Right ,

           McDi vitt       This was when we were still in the 90 degree bank

                           position.     Is that correct?   Or was it after I
                           had rolled right-side-up?

           White           It was after you had rolled right-side- up.
           McDivitt        Okay.     Well, then the IVI's displayed when we were
                           still on our side.      It seems to me they were
                           about 25 feet/second forward , and some other

                           numbers, but anyway they were low enough where I

                           felt we were certainly in orbit.      At least the

                           IGS was telling us we were in orbit.      During this
                           time, as I said earlier, I tried to damp the

                           spacecraft rates, the spacecraft booster rates

                           which were quite low.     I checked to see that the
                           OAMS Power Switch was in ATTITUDE and MANEUVER ,

                           and to see that Eli had switched over to DIRECT.
                           I told him I was going to do some thrusting but

                           I wasn't going to separate yet, so that when he
                            € 0 ~~ FfDENT.I.Al

--- PAGE 44 ---
~EIDENJl»,t
           heard the thrusters go off he wouldn't push the

           SPACECRAFT SEP.     Then we did separate the space­

           craft with   the ·exact    routine we practiced in the

           simulator.   I said, "Thrusting, separate", and you

           punched the SEPARATE button and I guess you went

           to Rate Command.     I thrusted straight ahead for

           about five seconds .    This is where I think we

           came off crooked.      This is the part Ed was men­

           tioning before.     We didn't seem to come off
           straight ahead.     We seemed to be getting some

           sort of an oscillation that got us going in a dif­
           ferent direction than what we had going on the

           booster.

White      It seemed,, like one side of the separation plane

           came off with more force than the other.

McDivitt   Yes.   That's what it seemed like to me.

White      It separated at a bit of an angle.

McDivitt   That's right.     We didn't separate fore and aft;
           we separated with a lot of rotation to this side.

White      Yes.

McDivitt   Air-ground communications were all right.        We were

           talking to them and they were talking to us .       I

           never had any problem there .

White      Shortly thereafter they called up and told us we
           i   C&MFfEiEM IIAL

--- PAGE 45 ---
CO~ ◄ FIDEt><tTIAL                                   37


           had a 153 by 57 orbit.     So, they were talking to

           us .    I don't think I ought to read off this stuff

           now, but they gave us the 2-1 data and all the

           nominal data we were supposed to get.      It came out

           fine.

McDivitt   Say again what the IVI's were while we rolled

           right-side-up.

White      Right .    At the position we decided on taking our

           IVI readings, which was heads up in a zero-zero

           attitude, you read off the IVI's to me as 20 for­

           ward, 11 right, and 5 down.

McDivitt   Okay.     Then I didn't bother nulling the pitch -·

           needle because we were reall y pressed for time to

           get around.

White      No velocity correction was called up to us and

           since we had no velocity correction , and we were
           fairly busy at this time, I didn't even read out

           the 52 or 70.     I wasn't particularly interested

           in them.     It ' s a funny thing though--52 was
           punched in and had: been read out and it showed 30.
           It had been punched in so it read out, you see, as

           soon as something came in the quantity.       So, I
           did have a readout.     I read out 30.   I remember

           looking at that.

--- PAGE 46 ---
38                    ~O ► ~flDENTI~

3. 3 Insertion Activities
         McDivitt     I thrusted and got off the booster.     Then I went

                      ahead for just a short time, and then I started

                      to turn around right away.    During the turn-around,

                      I j ettisoned the fairings.    They went off with a

                      bang.    I could see the fairing over the horizon
                      scanner go, but I never did see the fairing off

                      the nose go .    I just assumed that it went.       We

                      were already in just a mass of debris up there,
                      because when we se:p3,rated from the booster there

                      was stuff all over.

         White        All over.     It really flew by to the side of the

                      spacecraft.

         McDivitt     Yes.    It was all over the place.   As we . were

                      turning around it looked like we were going

                      through a snow storm.    There was stuff all over.

                      Finally we got turned around, in about a minute
                      and a half, and we could see the booster there.

     I   White        There ' s one thing I would certainly like to see


     I                somebody do--I'd have give my right arm to have

                      had a camera when I turned around and saw tbe
                      booster.    I ' d like to see somebody carry a camera

                      in a semi-•stowed position so he could immediately
                      get it out and come around and take pictures of

                      •CO ►~FIDE~~TIAL

--- PAGE 47 ---
39


           the booster.    Either the camera, or better yet a

           16 mm camera with a normal lens on it .    Just tuck

           it to the side of your leg.     If I had thought

           about it I think this is what I would have done-­

           just connected the camera, tucked it by my leg,

           and taken pictures of the booster at this time .
McDivitt   I think, Ed, this is probably one of those philo­
           sophical things.     On the first orbit you've got to

           save to prepare to come back in case you have a

           bad spacecraft.    You 've got to be ready to reen­
           ter during the first orbit . Tuis is the kind of

           bind we found ourselves in up there.    During the

           first orbit we really had a lot to get ready for
           halfway through the second orbit, but on the other

           hand we had to be in good enough shape so we could

           reenter it at 2-1.    Now, we didn't have anything
           to go wrong so there wasn't any problem, but I

           think when you first get into orbit you're in a
           problem.    This kind of a thing, I think, is a

           problem you may have later on.    You've got to be

           ready to eject at lift-off plus one second, and

           you don't want to be sitting there holding a
           camera or something like that.    Both your hands
           are busy.    But like you said we could stow it
           ~ONFtDf1'tliAt

--- PAGE 48 ---
40



                 3omewhere.

     White       I think you could .    You could stow it beside you

                 in the seat .    I think we over- emphasize the neces­

                 sity , particularly for ejection, of having to have

                 everything stowed when you are only ejecting up to

                12 000 feet and at very slow speeds.        We certainly

                 have a heck of a lot more working against us in

                 our airplanes we ' re flying around .

     McDivitt    That's right .    I agree with you .    I ' m just saying

                 this philosophy of being completely prepared to
                 reenter during that first orbit is in conflict

                 with doing this kind of stuff in the first orbit,

                 too.

     White       We ought to get some of this, though.        I think we

                 are missing things .     I would have really--

     McDivitt    Yes, I think so.      We could have really had some

                 beautiful pictures of that booster when we were

                 close to it.

     White       I also want to comment a little bit on the booster

                 itsel f .   I looked as closely as I could at the

                 nozzle skirt and the aft end of the booster , and

                 I saw no damage whatsoever.

     McDivitt    No, neither did I from our vantage point .

     White       As far as I could see the nozzle skirt was com-
                  ,C O I>~ 11;) El>fftAL

--- PAGE 49 ---
41



           pletely intact.    There was nothing wrong .

McDivitt   Okay.   Let ' s try to follow this insertion activi­

           ties list here .    I jettisoned the fairings , as I

           said , as soon as I started turning around .        Then

           Ed went through the checklist for us .     After I

           fired the fairings I turned off the BIA Switch and

           the retro rockets when he called.     I was probably

           doing this before Ed called, wasn ' t I?

White      We did things just like we had been doing them on

           the simulator .    We don't just take a checklist

           and run down it item for item because there ' re
           things you have to be doing , and it just doesn ' t

           go in a sequence like that .    I realized this was

           the way it was going to go, and I actually took a

           pencil and checked items off.     If you did an item

           I checked it off, and if you didn't I left it un­

           checked and we got it later.     You just can ' t ex-

           pect to run down the checklist item for item because

           you ' re not ready to unstow your life vest or to
           get up out of your seat belt.     You don 't do that

           for some time .    I think the logic on the check-
           list we have here is a very good sequence--.
McDivitt   We reviewed that checklist 50 times.       That's


             00 tq ftf)ENftA-t-

--- PAGE 50 ---
42
                 cor<tFIDENTIAt
                probably the fiftieth checklist we ' ve got there ,

                and I don ' t think i t could have been arranged any

                better for the two of us .

     White      I knew Jim wasn't going to undo his seat belt har­

                ness and I knew I was going to have to because I

                had to do certain things that he didn ' t have to .
                The point that I ' m making is that the checklist

                doesn ' t have to be accomplished item for item ,

                completely done in numerical sequence .

     McDivitt   Okay .    I thi nk we ' ll revert back to the exact
                subject of 3,3 now .     Safetying the switches .      I

                saftied the swi t ches-- the BIA Squib Switch and

                the four Retro Rocket Squibs Switches.       I tested
                the sequential l i ghts, but at a later time because

                I was involved in turning the spacecraft around.

                But X did test them .     As far as stowage , I stowed

                my left arm restraint and my D- ring , but I did

                not put my saf ety pin in.

     White      I went through and put my arm rest down , put my
                safety pin in .     That was one of the first things

                I did .

     McDivitt   I might comment that I never did put my safety pin

                in .     I never put the safety pin in the D- ring .       I
                felt the D- ring cover was adequate , and it was .
                  co ► ~fiilQ lil)l:rlsA<JL

--- PAGE 51 ---
43


White       I know , you never have been particularl y too hot

            on that .

McDi vitt   Noo

White       Then I went ahead and disconnected myself.      I had

            a lot of things I had to squirm around and do.          I

            left my life vest on as we had planned to do , then

            take them off leisurely at a different time.      I did

            not find any reason to put the drogue pins in.          I

            don't think they are satisfactory in any way .      I

            don ' t think the pin itself i s sati sfactory , and I
            don ' t think the location or type of holes are
            satisfactory . I will elaborate on them a little

            further.    We have had aircraft around for a long
            time and we have learned a lot about saf ety pins .

            We have come up with some pretty good designs on

            safety pins.   We have a design on our drogue pin
            right now which is no more than the very first

            type of safety pin that I saw on an aircraft.       I

            think that we are past the point where we should

            be starting right out at the beginning.      We ought

            to put a properly designed safety pin in there
            that you can insert a little easier into the holes .

            I ' m not going to try to design the pin but I think

            that it should have some type of shaft on it that
            r€0NFll}ENftl(L -

--- PAGE 52 ---
44              -E OI'~FI DE~ITIAL
                you can use to stabilize the pin when you insert

                it.   And when I s ay the holes through which you

                insert t he pins are unsatisfactory, I ' m referring

                to holes through a cylindr i cal shaft that is

                hollow inside so t hat you not only have t o find

                the hole to put it in on one side , but you have

                to work it around and find the hole that it goes

                t hrough on the other side.     I don ' t believe that's
                satisfactory .     I don't think the opening into the

                hole is supposed to be beveled and they weren ' t
                beveled on my seat and they weren't beveled on
                Jim ' s seat , either.   I t hink a beveled hole is a
                hole that is bigger on the outside than it is on

                the inside.      I don' t believe there is much dif­

                ference between the outside and the inside of the
                holes for the drogue pins.      I had a difficult

                time putting my own in.      I put Jim's pins in .   It
                took me awhile, but I put them in.       I never did

                get one of mine in satisfactorily at this time ,
                so I think we should do something better with

                the drogue pins.      In addition I couldn ' t even see

                the hole.
     McDivitt   You had an easier time putting my pin in t han you

                had putt ing your own pin in.
                 GO~~FIDEl>ITIAL

--- PAGE 53 ---
.-CQ~qfl9tNTIAL                                        45


White      That' s correct .     I could put yours in fairly easy.

McDivitt   That's right .      I think that when you turn towards

           the center of the spacecraft , you end up with more

           room than if you turned to the outside .       You can ' t

           see a thing if you are turning toward the outside .
White      This is probably covered later, but my hose lengths

           were not long enough to permit me to turn all the

           way around ,     I knew this when we went through

           We ight and Balance .     I knew my hoses were not

           long enough but it was too late , as far as I was
           concerned, t o change them at that ti~ .       But, I

           couldn't see the holes on my side to insert the

           drogue pin.      I couldn ' t see the holes for your

           drogue pin either, but I could get a better view
           of them over there so I knew approximately where

           t o put the pin ,     I think in all respects the drogue
           pins are not satisfactory.       You just can't see

           them ; the pins are incorrect, the holes are in­
           correct, and I think we can certainly do better
           with them .
McDivitt   I think what Ed is saying is that it 's lousy.
White      That's right.       In two letter words, it stinks !

           This is the way the batteries were reading out

           when I checked them at insertion.       And this is what
             CO ► 4FIDE~~rft"AI:

--- PAGE 54 ---
€O ►~FIDEt4Tl~L

I had suspected they were doing when we launched-­

why we had unbal anced stack readings .     1-A read

6   amps, 1-B read 10 , 1-C read 11.       This accounts

for your high reading on Stack 1.     2-A    was    6,

2-B was 6, , and 2-C was 6 . .    Ttis was the way
they were reading.     I ran through a check on them

when we were actually in the booster phase.        So

that is why I felt the reading wasn ' t bad.       They

were both reading about 23 1/2 or 24 volts .       They

looked pretty good.

I got my 2-1 update.     I got the t:N of 167, 6T        of

3+35, and GMT to retro command of 14 48 34. I have
the other times too.    The time to 400 000 was 2+18,
as read up to me and the time to reverse bank

angle was 8+47.   This is what we wrote down .
This is one time I remember now when I was a little

irritated, because they gave times to us in a

manner in which I hadn ' t wanted them to e They
were supposed to give elapsed time but they gave
it to us in GMT time for our retro.       We had asked

them to give it to us in elapsed,     They came right

back up and gave it to us both ways.       I remember
writing it down twice, on the elapsed time of

01 32 35.   I can see why they did it because it

--- PAGE 55 ---
CONFtf>E~ftAi.                                      47


           was two minutes past     one hour 30 minutes, and I

           guess they weren't sure exactly what we wanted.

           So they gave it to us in GMT and elapsed time
           also .   But that is the information we received,

           as far as our 2-1 area was concerned.

McDivitt   I think Ed had better cover unstowage.     I didn't

           unstow anything.     I was just trying to stick with

           the booster at that time.

White      The first thing I got into was my right-hand

           stowage compartment and I unstowed the blood
           pressure bulb.     Then I started into the center

           section to get at the camera .   The first thing I

           wanted to get out was the Hasselblad and the 16 mm.

           I was dying to get a picture of that booster.        So ,
           I unstowed the Hasselblad and got a good back on

           it and the 16 mm camera.     I didn't unstow the

           urine nozzle as the flight plan had called.     We
           both had decided we were going to use our launch­

           day urine bags as long as we could, and we had
           hoped to use them right through the ENA.     As it

           turned out, we did.     That was about all I unstowed
           at this time.    I unstowed the cameras, the blood

           pressure bulb and also got out the film cartridges
           and the tape cartridges.     I put them on the side

             CONFIDENTIAb

--- PAGE 56 ---
48    COt'4FI0EN-l+M.
     of the foot well , where I planned to keep them,

     so that we could keep a good tape cartridge

     available.

--- PAGE 57 ---
---G0N F-40 ENTIA L_,                                    49




                    4. 0 ORBITAL FLIGHT
McDivitt     I think that the orbital flight should be broken

             down into some very distinct sequences .      I think

             there are really three of these .     The first one

             is about the first three or four orbi ts where we

             were trying to stay with the booster, where we di d

             the FNA and where we finally got back in.        The

             time that we finally got the spacecraft depressur­

             ized ends one phase of the mission.       The next

             phase or sequence of the things that come        along
             is really the second phase .     This is the middle

             50 orbits or so , where we did the experiments and

             where we did the flight plan in a highly modified
             manner .    We did the flight plan we started out to

             do .   And the last phase or series of sequences

             wa s the ~et ro- prepa ration , r etrofire and the

             reentry .    The retro- preparation was actually

             another distinct phase of the mission .      I think
             that we ought to divide it up into those three

             phases-- the station-keeping and FNA as Stage 1 ,

             general orbit as Stage 2, and retro- preparation

             and reentry as Stage 3.      So I think we should


              CONFID ~~:rt Al

--- PAGE 58 ---
50                       ~-IE>ENTIA L-
                        start in the orbital flight with the station­

                        keeping on the booster.    I think that we should

                        just pluck that thing out and follow it through in

                        its entirety , and then come back and pick up these

                        things like the thrusters , Control :fode Checks ,

                        Com Checks , and those things .
4 . 1 Station-Keeping

          McDivitt      The station-keeping with the booster--Well, as I

                        said earlier on the insertion phase , I started

                        turning around as soon as I completed the forward
                        thrusting.   I jettisoned the nose fairings after

                        about 30 or 40 degrees of yaw.      I rolled right­

                        side-up and then I started yawing around to the
                        left.   We saw all kinds of debris floating around

                        and we finally saw the booster back behind us. It

                        was already in a peculiar attitude.      As Ed men­
                        tioned , when we separated from the booster, it
                        didn·• t really feel like we came off straight ahead .

                        It seemed like we got knocked off to the side of

                        the thing.   The spacecraft-booster combination

                        sort of bent in half at the separation plane .         We

                        yawed on around and saw the booster , and I thought
                        it was around 400 feet back.      Eli thought it was
                        a little closer.

                        -€0·N FIDE~L

--- PAGE 59 ---
£.ONfll)ENTIAf                                            51



White      I would estimate it at between 200 and 250 feet.

McDivitt   Okay.        We were in pretty good shape right then

           and I applied about five or six seconds of

           thrusting that should have come out around            5~
           feet/second .       I was in a hurry trying to get our

           separation velocity stopped, so I was thrusting.

           I had it in Rate Command .       I pointed the space­

           craft at the booster and started thrusting, and

           by the time I got the computer in the Catch- Up

           Mode and the Start Comp button on, I had already

           thrusted ' 2 or         3 -~ feet/second out and I
           counted up another · 3         feet/second on the IVI's .
           It looked like we were probably stopped, although

           I couldn't tell tlBt quickly.        I knew I had as

           much f::.V     in there as I had at separation, and
           possibly a little more, because I tried to hold

           the separation f::.V     down to no more than    •5

           feet/second.       We watched it for just a short time

           and then it was obvious that we hadn't stopped our

           separation velocity--our relative velocity--so we
           were still separating.        So , I applied about ano-
           ther •• 3        or • 4 feet/second, which should have
           more than overcome the : 4        or · 5   feet/second
           I put in initially .      It looked like we had stopped

            .CO NFlD-E-~ IlAL

--- PAGE 60 ---
52

                 then .       Our relative velocity looked like it went

                 to zero .      Here, I thought, we were out around

                 500 or 600 feet.            F.d thought we were: probably in

                 closer than that.

     White       Yes .    I thought we were in a little clos er.

     McDivi tt   I put in a tota l of around· 9            feet/second in
                 the first minute and a half after we turned

                 around .

     White       I think we commented together on the speed with

                 which the booster was going away ~om us .             Right

                 off the bat it looked like it wa.s- -it surprised

                 me that it actually looked like it separated ·rrom

                 us as fast as it really--
     McDivitt    It looked like it had a lot more velocity than

                 the      4    or   5   J   feet/second I added at t he
                 separation.        It looked to me , as an off- the- top- of:.

                 my- head-guess , that something in the spacecra ft

                 separation thing had really built up a lot of

                 relative velocity between the booster and the

                 spacecraft .       I don't know why or how.       Al so , it
                 looked like we weren ' t          inplane anymore .   It was

                 actual l y out-of- plane so that we had an out - of­
                 plane rela tive velocity that I took out .            I
                 pointed at the booster because , obviously , if

                 --EONffOfNTt~t.

--- PAGE 61 ---
€0NftDEM11:At~                                       53


you're separating away from something, whichever

way you ' re going, if you point at the thing and

if you t hrust in that direction you are to take

out your relative velocity in all planes .     So , it

looked like the thing was off to the left or to the

south of our orbital track by a couple hundred

feet and it was going down rapidly .     Losing

altitude.      After I thrusted this second time, I
knew I had more than enough velocity, much more

than I needed to kill off the       5 feet/second
we'd added .     I watched it and it looked like it
wasn ' t going away from us anymore. It looked like

our relative velocities had stopped.      I wanted to ··


---
get the platform alined somewhat in case we did

have to come down in the 2~1.      We really hadn't

had much chance to check over the spacecraft yet.

So I quickly went to as close to zero-zero- zero

as I could get .     I used the zero yaw and the zero

roll off the ball and I went to a pitch at t i tude

that looked like it was about zero and tried to

get the ball to aline to zero-zero- zero .    At that

time the booster was mostly behind us--mostly
back toward the Cape from us--back behind us with
respect to our velocity back there .     It iwas in the

--- PAGE 62 ---
54
                 <coN FU)1:l'tllA.b-
                window and I could see it.       Well, I started

                alining the platform and left it there for a

                couple of minutes .     The booster started falling

                again, descending below us .      It actually went

                out of my view in the window.       At the time

                though our relative velocities were quite small,


                --
                so I felt I could let it go for another 30 seconds

                or a minute and not have it g e ~ ~ r away__!rom
                ..=                                            -------
                me .   It looked like it was coming toward me again ,

                but going below.     So , I allowed myself about
                another minute and I pi tched down and looked for

                it.    It appeared that during that minute it had

                gone a lot farther down than I had expected it to
                go .
     White      Yes , I was surprised .    Remember that it looked like
                the orbit was sure something different than we
                predicted .
     McDivitt   Yes.   It looked to me like the booster and the

                spacecraft weren't in anything that even resem­

                bled the same orbit , at the rate it was descending.

                I don ' t know what the range rate was at that time.
                It looked like it was a lot more than a foot/

                second , though .   I don ' t know what it was .   I
                quickly pitched back up to zero-zero-zero and
                 C.ONF~DE~:r.lAL

--- PAGE 63 ---
55


            s t ayed there for about another ten or fifteen

            seconds and went to Orbit Rate,        I knew I didn ' t

            have a good alinement on the platform but I knew

            I couldn ' t stay there any longer and have the

            booster anywhere nea r us .      So , I flipped around

            and pitched right straight down and here 's where

            the problems s t arted,   To get down to the booster

            in a long rendezvous      type maneuver, what I should

            have done was to jus t stay horizontal and fir e

            retrograde and t ake some total velocity out of the
            spacecraft .   But , when you do this the booster
            continues to pull away from you for a whi l e , and
            then eventually you are going to drop down below

            it .   Then you are going to be in a l ower-al titude

            orbit and you are going to pick up and catchup

            with the boos ter .   Well, with the sta tion- keeping

            we had to do and the fact that the darkness was

            only a matter of another few minutes--

White       Boy it was fas t !

McDivi tt   It wasn ' t any time a t all .    I didn ' t have time to

            play a rendezvous     game with it ,    I had to over­

            come this relative velocity we had with sort of

            brute force , s o I thrus ted right a t the booster

            again.    I got going down and I used about       5
            "CO t'-' FIO~NT+Al.

--- PAGE 64 ---
56


                     feet/second there .    Here ' s where the numbers ge t

                     a little vague .    I thrusted down at it and I

                     watched it go for awhile .    I thought sure we 'd

                     start closing on it again .       We weren't closing,

                     so I thrusted down on it again .       I must have done

                     this probably three or four times. I can't say
                     exact l y.

         White       I don ' t remember, precisely, how many times you

                     thri1sted .   I was keeping my eyes on the booster .

         McDivi tt   And i t was a lot t ougher to see when it was down

                     with the ground as a background, I t hought, than

                     with the sky as a background .      During this period

                     of t i me its rotational velocity picked up con­

                     siderably, and during this time Fd checked it and
                     got eight seconds for a complete revolution.
         White       A complete revolution .    Yes.    This was an estimate .

     \ McDivi tt     This meant that in the first three minutes after
                     we were in orbit the thing had gone up to a rota­
     I               tional rate of 40 to 50 degrees/second .       I t seemed

                     to stabilize at that rate . Its rotational rates

                     stabilized but I don ' t believe its rotational

                     mode ever stabilized.     It didn't rotate in a plane
                     as I thought a loµg body like that would rotate .

                     It seemed to oscillate in just a random       tumbling
                     -CE7~1DENTIAL

--- PAGE 65 ---
57

        fashion .   It was all over.    It looked to me like i t

        was rotating in three axes in a completely unpro­

        grarnmed manner .    It might have been that the roll

        nozzle was flopping around and the fuel was turn­

        ing it around in different directions.      And as a

        matter of fact, at this time we should go back and

        draw a picture of what the fuel looked like and

        what was coming out of the no zzle.     The booster

        was tumbling and you could see the fuel squirting

        out of the roll nozzle in a big fan like this.         I
        had the impression that if the booster were per­

        fectly stationary, the fuel would have been comi ng

        out of the nozzle in a great big cone the way you
        would expect it to, but because the booster was

        tumbling so rapidly it was coming out in a long ,
        twisted- - l ike a horn of plenty.   It was very ob­

        vious ; you could see it, and ther e wssn ' t any doubt

        about the fact that there was a lot of fuel coming

        out .   Whether this was contributing some thrust to
        it or not I don't know .
White   I want to comment on something that was quite an
        experience for me.     When I called out to you, I

        was looking down at what I thought , since it was

        pitch black, was the sky.      I could see little

          cet-4PIDfNT~AL

--- PAGE 66 ---
58               ~Ptt>fNT-l;4h

                sparkles everywhere .    And it looked like almost

                a starlit sky, but it just didn't quite look

                right to me ; it looked like an artificial star-

                lit sky .   It looked like some of these star dis­

                plays they have created for us .     And I looked

                over at Jim and asked him if he was seeing this

                and about the same time I noticed that he had

                nothing but dayl ight out his window.      This was

                the first time that I had the daylight- dark

                experience of one guy looking into pitch black
                night and the other guy looking into a complete

                daylight window over there .    Jim remarked rather

                disgustedly to me, "We are pointed straight at the

                ground!"    About the same time I realized I was

                looking out at the fire flies everybody had s een,

                but probably in a much more profuse quantity than

                had ever been seen before , because we were getting

                a ll this fuel that was vaporizing into many , many
                particles from the booster and a little bit of a

                contribution from the spacecraft also .

     McDivitt   And we were thrusting, too .     I ' m sure we had all

                that junk on it from our launch.

     White      That ' s right .   And the whole area out in front of
                my view was just entirely taken up with these

                  CONFIOENft-AL

--- PAGE 67 ---
little pa r t icles , and this was at sunset .     As the

           flight progressed, each time we had a particle or

           a group of particles such as a urine dump r ight

           at sunset or sunrise, the sun would pick these

           particles up and they would act just like litt l e

           magnifying glasses and make very bright spots.

           This is exactly what happened .         Did you ever s ee

           that then?      I think you were more in the daylight

           side .

McDivitt   No .     I was on the daylight side .     I didn't see

           what you were talking about.

White      It was really something.       The whole sky within my

           view was covered with these little particles- ­

           thousands of them .     There was obviously a great

           deal of that stuff in the air all around .

McDivitt   As soon as we got turned around I could see trat t he

           lights were flashing on the booster, and Ed saw

           them , too.     It was pretty apparent .     I cal l ed out

           r i ght away to the gruund that the lights were

           working .     I don't know if they understood what I

           was talking about or not.       I also called out

           shortly after we came off the booster and we saw
           it,that it didn't look like we were going to be

           able to touch it .. because of the high rotational

--- PAGE 68 ---
60               CO·N·F~DENTIM
                rates that we already had .     We were into darkness

                by the time that we got turned around, and I had

                thrusted just two or three times at the booster .

                We were still quite far above it--I would guess

                now on the order of 2000 feet or more and it was

                still dropping away from us rapidly; I had already

                used about 25 or 30 feet/second to get toward the

                booster.      I knew I had to catch it during the

                night time because when we came out of the dark­

                ness on the next pass, we had to be next to it ,
                because we were supposed to take some photos of it

                around that time .    So I thrusted some more right

                at the booster trying to just overcome orbital
                mechanics with brute force .     It was too l ate to

                start playing fancy games with the orbital mechan­

                ics .   Finally, I got us down to what I considered

                a good position , and this was prior to Carnarvon,

                I believe .    Remember when we finally got it on

                the horizon?
     White      It looked like it had finally stopped .

     McDivitt   The relative velocity had finally stopped.      And

                let me now make a general comment about what I

                thought of the lights on it .    We had two lights on

                the booster that flashed and they were diametrically

                  CO~Fl0E~TtAL

--- PAGE 69 ---
€01~FtDcNfJA~                                          61

           opposed on the center of the booster .      And when

           the booster was in such a manner that I could see

           both of the lights, I could tell relative rates

           and I had an idea of how far away I was .      Did you

           find this to be true too, Ed , or not?

White      Well , I can ' t honestly say I was looking at it

           with that feeling .

McDivitt   Okay .   Well , what I am saying is that it was

           difficult--

White      I want to hear what you are going to say.       I 'm
           not sure what you ' re saying yet ,

McDivitt   It was difficult to tell how far I was away from

           it , at best , but when I had the booster in such a

           position that I could see both lights at the same

           time , I could tell by the distance between the
           lights whether I was close or far .

White      Okay .   I agree with that .

McDivitt   And when I could see these lights flashing over a

           period of time , I could tell whether the distance

           between them was getting larger or smaller so that

           I knew i f I was closing or not .     Unfortunately ,
           becaus e the booster was tumbling in this scre,ry

           manner, I couldn't maneuver around ~he booster

           because it was tumbling so fast ; I was just trying

             CONFtDENftt\L

--- PAGE 70 ---
62


             to get close to it and not even maneuver--not to
             pick specific positions .     All I wanted to do was

             just get close enough so I wouldn ' t lose it.       When

             I could see these two lights, I had a pretty good
             impression of whether I was closing or opening;

             for a long part of the early part of the mission

             in the night time it looked like we were holding

             our own, and then we finally started closing with

             it .     I finally worked it down where we were at
             the same level ,    All this time I had been above

             the booster.     I worked dovm until I was at the same
             altitude with it ; at least it was on the horizon .
             I felt that by then I had gotten the thing under
             control and we stood a pretty good chance of still
             coming out on the daylight side with the booster.

             I can't tell you what the range was .     It looked

             to me like I had worked the range back dovm (it
             had been opening up as · we went into darkness)--

             to 2000 or 3000 feet again--probably around 2000

             feet .    It might even have been as low as 1000 feet .

             It could have been lower than that .    At one time I
             got the impression that we were quite close to it .
     White   Yes .    You were wondering whether you should retro­

             grade away from it .

               6ONFt01:M"flAL

--- PAGE 71 ---
McDivitt    It looked to me like we could have gotten as close

            as 200     feet .     It was extremely difficult to tell

            how close we were.        What's your guees , Ed?    Just
            pick a number.

White       I wouldn't say that close .        I 'd say you ' re more in

            the ball park in the neighborhood of 700 to 1000
            feet.

McDivitt    Okay.
White       You could be magnitudes off.
McDivi tt   Before we got to Carnarvon, I remember , we were in

            reasonably good shape , because I had finally

            gotten down to the booster.         I felt if I could

            just keep it down near the booster we would be all

            right .   Then it looked to me l ike we were closing
            rather rapidly.        So I thought we were going to get

            next to it and then we were going to be all right.

            'I'he reason I felt this was because I could see the
            two lights .        It must have been rotating in such a

            manner that I could see the two lights .         Almost

            every fifth or tenth time they blinked I could see
            them .    I could see two of them .     So I knew by the
            distance that we were in quite close and everything

            looked pretty good then .        And then for a long ,

            long, long period of time after that I never

--- PAGE 72 ---
saw two lights again .   I don ' t lmow if you did or

               not .   I kept looking and there was a single light

               and a single light and a single light, and I

               didn't lmow where I was with respect to the boos ­

               ter .   And then I started getting the impression

               without really seeing the double lights , I guess,

               that it was going away very rapidly .   Maybe I did

               see two lights and I just don ' t remember it now.
White          My impression was that the light was getting
               fainter .

McDivitt       I think that must have been it .   I think that

               must have been it.    But all of a sudden I got the
               impression that it was leaving me at a rapid rate .


           I   It wasn't that easy to see .   During the few times

               that the booster was up against the sky back-

           I   ground it was easy to see , but when it was down

               against a ground background, it was very difficult
               to see . I think it was just before we got to Car­

               narvon that I felt we were in good shape .     And then

               as we passed Carna rvon , I remember calling I could

               see the lights of the city.    Well, during this
               period of time all of a sudden I thought it was

               starting to pull away again.    So I started

               thrusting at it again . And I never really got the

               ~itAL

--- PAGE 73 ---
EONftE>ENllAL..                                        65


           double blink of the lights for a l ong , long, long

           time.     And finally I thought I could see them

           blinking again, and they were a lmost a single

           light this time since they were so far away.           And

           this occurred over a very short period of time .

           TRn minutes?      Five minutes?

White      Yes .

McEivitt   Is that right?     Whatever you think, Ed .

White      Yes .     I fully agree wit} you.

McDivitt   So then I said to Ed, "I ~hink we are losing it ."

           So I started thrusting a t it again.      All of a

           sudden it was apparent that the thing wasn't as
           close as it had been.      So we started thrusting

           at it .
White      In fact, that was one time you said we had lost it,

           didn't you?
McDivitt   I said I think we have lost it .       I had it in
           sight.     I didn't saj that I had lost sight of it.

White      I thought you meant you had lost sight of it.

McDivitt   No.     I still had it all the time.
White      But it wasn't getting any bigger.
McDivitt   I didn't have e:n:y idea in the world where we were .
           And I still couldn't really tell.       Finally , we

           could see the sky starting to get a little gray

            ~NflDENTb\L

--- PAGE 74 ---
66               GOt\fPID Etft+A L
                and I thought at least we were going to get to see

                where t he t hing was.     And all of a sudden the

                booster came out just like that, and you could

                see it .    The lights disappeared and there was the
                booster.     It was ·2    or    3   miles away, I'll bet .
     White      You asked me there and I estimated 1 1/2 miles .

     McDivitt   So , it had gotten that far away in such a short

                time, and it was down .     I think what really gave
                me the clue that we were losing it again was that

                I had it on the horizon and it had sta~ted going
                down below us .
     White      Right .    It looked like it was about 30 degrees

                below --
     McDivitt   It started going down again .       And I could see it
                was coming down below the horizon , so I knew that

                I wasn't right with it .       But I wasn't really sure

                how far away I was so I did thrust a couple of

                times--a foot/second or so--to make sure I always
                had a closing velocity with it .      And finally I

                got the thing down .      It was down so that when it

                came out it wasn't directly below me ; it was out
                in front of me and down again .      And like Eli said,

                I guess it was down about 30 degrees .
     White      That's what I ' d estimate .

--- PAGE 75 ---
67
            C-Ol<fFJ0ENT1Ai.
McDivitt   When it came out of the night and we saw it out ('"
           there in the daylight- -

White      Right .    I ' d estimate 30 degrees down.

McDivitt   It was above the horizon, just barel y .     Or was it

           above the horizon?

White      No, it was below the horizon .
           I ' d say it wasn't more than ten or twelve degrees

           below the earth horizon , but below our local hori ­

           zon .     It was in the neighborhood of 30 degrees .

           If you looked out level to what you would call

           level--but you lmow the horizon tilts away from

           you , so - - .

McDivitt   So here again we were faced wi tr. the same kind of

           problem- -to cater. up with the booster. _What I

           should have done was to retrofire right then to

           drop down , get a lower orbit, and come back up .
           But we had to get to the booster right then or we

           weren ' t going to get to it, becauae we had the

           mission to take p~otographs of it across the

           States .     So I thought if I could close with it at

           10 or 15 feet/second we could at least overcome
           our problem.      So I aimed behind it , so to speak,

           and down , and I thrusted that way trying to get

           enough closing velocity down and another one that

            -E9NFJDE~llA~

--- PAGE 76 ---
68
                  eo~~FtOENllAL

                would bring us up to it at the same time; but most

                of the thrusting I did was down .    Then we just

                didn't gain on it .   I s tarted thrusting retro­

                grade with my top thruster, but I was thrusting

                more back and downward.     I just absolutely could

                not get down to the booster.     It kept pulling

                away and pulling away until by the time we got
                to Hawaii .

     White      You were putting a lot of 6V i n there and we just

                weren't doing anything .    We just weren't making
                any headway.

     McDivitt   It continued to pull away from us and it was

                falling farther and farther below us until

                finally--
     White      You put in about 40 feet/second to do something

                with it and it hadn ' t changed a speck .
     McDivitt   By the time we got to Hawaii I told them I thought
                we were having difficulty doing it .    k:J.yway, I

                had decided by that time that if we were going to

                do the mission at all, the only thing we could do
                would be to leave the booster.    The fuel was

                down to around 75 per cent on my 'gage and the
                gage kept going up and down, so it wasn't a

                heck of a lot of help .    I had burned around 85 or

                 eor<IFIDE~~Tl:t\L

--- PAGE 77 ---
90 feet/second .   I had numbers in all three of the

        windows, and of course since I was changing atti­

        tudes and thrusting in different directions those

        numbers were going all over the place .    So I made

        up my mind then that i t looked like a hopeless task

        and that we had better stop this stuff or we were
        going to lose all the fue l for the whole mission.

        We probably wouldn't be able to catch it, and we

        wouldn't be able to do what we were going to do .

        I think the only thing we could have done to save

        the whole thing would nave been for us just to go

        forward on t he local horizontal and retrograde a

        large amount on the order of 20 to 30 feet/second,

        fall down below the thing and catch it .an orbit

        or so later and actually perform rendezvous with

        it .   But because the flight plan was such that we

        had to get all the EVA done in the first three

        orbits , and because Chris and I had talked this

        over and decided the EVA was the more important
        of the two things , I felt t hat the best thing to

        do woul d be to abandon trying to catch up with
        the booster.
White   Let me interject something else , too .   See if you

        had the same feeling .   I had the feeling that the

          ~QNFIDENT.IAL

--- PAGE 78 ---
70


                booster orbit had changed so much with respect to

                our orbit that if we really went down after it, it

                might jeopardize our lifetime .
     McDivitt   Honestly , I was concerned about that too , because,

                remember , I called and asked what the heck our

                orbit was right then .   The booster looked like it

                was going down at such a rapid rate .    By the time
                we got to the States I would guess it was       5
                miles below us at least.
     White      My impression was even more .     I thought maybe it
                wasn't more a t the time but it was going more .        I

                felt that if we really got back with tbe booster we
                might have a pretty good orbit , but we would be

                down in the neighborhood of 130 and this wasn ' t

                the altitude we wanted to    be, . ,for. the six- day
                lifetime   that we wanted.
     McDivitt   The other thing tha t bothered me was that we were

                going toward perigee where we should have been
                coming back together .   And we weren't. We were

                pulling away so fast that it wasn't even funny .

                Frankly , I just couldn't figure out what kind of

                orbit the booster was in.    It looked to me like ,
                if we were having trouble , the place where we
                should have been the farthest from it was at Car-

                 C.O f)J FID E~tt IA L

--- PAGE 79 ---
eo,~FtDENTIA'l                                       71


narvon .   Apogee should have been far t hest apart .

Our perigee should have been closest together .

It was almos t opposite .    We were with it at

Carnarvon , but we wer e way far away from it and

getting f arther away from it as we crossed the

United States , or Mexico, or wherever we came.         I

wasn' t looking out at the scenery; I was looking

a t the booster .   It.was extremely difficul t to

t rack across the water and as we got to t he land

it was almost an impossibility to track it ,      Here
the distance i s extremely difficult to judge .       It
It could have been anywhere from      5   to 15 miles

directly below us a t this time .    If I had a range

rate I could have told where I was all the time
and with range rate I would have been able to

rendezvous with it from a mile .     I could have

done the things I lmew had to be done , rather than
try to do it .forcefully .    I sort of feel the big

prob lem was that we were so optimistic for those

first three orbits that it is almost unbelievable .

It became apparent when we tried to do the EVA
that we couldn ' t do it in the t ime allotted.      But

anyway,I had dec ided by the time we had gone by

Hawaii, or wherever it was a fter we had been in the

  C-eNFIDE-NTIAl

--- PAGE 80 ---
72


                daylight for ten minutes or so, that i t was hope­

                less, and I told that t o F.d .     I told him I

                thought we had lost the booster for good .         I
                don ' t mean I didn ' t s ee i t but t hat we weren ' t

                goi ng to get back down to it .      He a greed with me .

     White      Yes.

     McDivitt   I think I could have gotten to the booster i n a

                dignified , normal , slow , easy manner if we di dn ' t

                have the constraint on us of being next to the

                booster in the first daylight pass over the States,

                and taking pictures , prepare for the EVA , and be r eady

                to emerge from the spacecr aft an hour after we

                came out of t he daylight on our first pass , which

                was about two hours i nto the flight .       I just fe lt

                that if I had had more time, I could have gone

                ahead and done some of this without using brute

                force to overcome the difference between the
                booster and myself.      I could have gone into a

                l ower orbit and chased it t hat way .      I could have
                just gone horizontal and r etrofired and f a llen
                away from the thing initially and caught back up

                with it l a ter on , but it was getting so far a way

                from us to start with that to purpose ly put your-
                self fart her a way from it so that you could catch

                  eor'4FIDEMT+AL

--- PAGE 81 ---
JeG~-1DENT-IA~                                          13


           up l a ter on was not the thing to do.      We had to be

           all done at a certain time.        We had to be with the

           booster when we came back into daylight.        That was

           it ; that was the thing .     We had to be with the

           boos t er , because we had to take those pictures .

           Then we had to be with the booster again an hour

           and a half after that so that we could do the EVA

           right next to it .       And with those kinds of time

           constraints you don ' t have time to perform a ren­

           dezvous .    You've got to get with it right then, but

           we just couldn't get with it right then .
                                                                        \
White      You know another thing too ; I'm darned glad we

           didn ' t use any 10 feet/second initially to sepa­

           rate with.      I think we could have used something

           in the terms of      1    or ·2, feet/second and that

           would have been fine.       Don"-' t you?

McDivitt   I cut it short .     I only burned about     5 seconds,
           and I stopped.
White      You have been doing that in all your simulations
           so I knew you were going to do that .       You can even

           cut it less .    It was amazing to me the sepa r a tion
           you get i mmediatel y.

McDivitt   I t almost seemed like we had a posigrade rocket

           on the spa cecraft and a retrograde rocket on the

             GQ;NFt0ENllA~
                 \

--- PAGE 82 ---
74     C.Qt~FIDEtfflAt'

     booster, the way we separa ted .     Well, anyway , we

     told Guaymas that we had to ge t resolution i mme­

     diately if they wanted us to continue to chase the

     booster because we had used a lot of fuel and we
     weren ' t getting any closer and it was still

     pulling away from us .     If they wanted to go for i t

      they had to make up their minds and we would

      really go after it .    But I didn ' t think it was

     wise .   They confimed this and said,'Knock it off!'

     For cloeing rates at rendezvous, I t hink you could

     handle 20 , 30 , 40 feet/second if you are coming
     at it , not if you are gomg away from it .       You

     see we never got a chance to do a rendezvous .          We

     never rendezvoused with it .      The best thing we

      ever did was to get close enough to it where I

      could at least say I was at the same a l titude with·

      it for a change .    It was the fi r st t ime I had

      gotten back to tee same altitude since we left it

     at insertion .     Yoo just can't equate it.    You

      don't do an optical rendezvous with the booster
      below you .    You try to put it above you so you

      have the stars and the sky background.        It was
      below us .    You couldn't do any line· of· sight

      nulling because there wasn't anything to null the

--- PAGE 83 ---
H)EN=ttAL                                   75


        line of -sight w:ith .   On the other hand I found

        that if the sun was on the window you couldn't see

        beyond the nose of the spacecraft .    This satellite

        that I saw over around Ha¼~ii--I saw the thing

        and we were closing on it.     We might have had a

        better rendezvous with it than with our own booster .

        We were closing on it and I was concerned enough

        that I checked to see where the a . c. Fower Switch

        was to see if I had maneuver capability at the

        time :    The •• sun came across the window and I

        lost it just like that .    It might have been   5·
        miles out.    I don't knov•. It might have been then.

        It might have been 50 miles out, but I had the im­

        pression in the 30 or 40 s econds I saw it that it

        was quite close because I could make out the shape

        of it.    Shoot!   The sun came across the window and

        that was the last thing I saw out the window.        I
        never saw another thing out the window until we

        were gone and until the sun finally came off the

        window.   So, if you are doing an optical r endez­

        vous and you've got the sun on the window, I don't
        know what you'd do.
White   And if you have as dirty windows as we had-- our

        windows had a white film of material on the

          GeNFIDENTIAt....

--- PAGE 84 ---
76                CO t#iDEN Tl,c\ I,,..

                 outside       , which made it very difficult to see out

                when the sun's rays reflected on these particles

                that were on the outside of the windshield .

     McDivitt   To just summarize this thing , I think that we

                came off the booster with a fully unknown relative

                velocity which was much greater than what we

                anticipated, and it didn't seem to be an inplane

                relative velocity.      It didn ' t seem to be an inplane

                local horizontal relative velocity.       It was out-of­

                plane and it looked like the booster headed down ,
                with respect to us because i t started separating

                from us so rapidly ,     I t a l so had less total velo-

                city.           I think that this was the first sur-

                prise .   It started tumbling and immediately the
                rates built up in just a· very few minutes to

                something very high-- 40 to 50 degrees/second--

                but it never got any higher , at least the best we

                could tell .     When we last saw it over Mexico or

                over southern United Sta tes it was still tumbling
                at about the same rate , I guess around 40 or 50

                degrees/second.      I felt tret I got down to it all

                right and I was in reasonably good shape prior to
                Carnarvon, and from that time on until we came out
                of the darkness I lost it , And I think I lost it

--- PAGE 85 ---
£0N·~ll;)ENTIAl-                                     77


           because looking at a single light at night doesn't

           give you any depth perception at all.     You just

           don't know where the booster is .    I think that

           summarizes it .   Ed, you want to add anything?       You

           weren't watching it as much as I was , but you saw

           enough of it to know exactly what was going on.
White      Well, you see I wasn't able to put the pieces

           quite together because I was either looking out,

           and I couldn't see when you were thrusting, or I

           was looking in and watching you when you were
           thrusting and listening and not looking out .     I

           tried to interJect my thoughts as we went along

           and I agree with what you said.     I don't believe
           I want to add anything else.
McDivitt   Now that we've covered the tracking and the los ing

           of the booster, I think we ought to go back to the
           very beginning a t insertion and we will go through

           the checks that we went through as we proceeded

           along and the things t hat F,d and I were both doing

           aside from tracking the booster, the things that we

           were either doing to prepare to come back in at

           area 2-1 or t o stay in orbit and proceed with
           the FNA as we had planned,     In looking over the
           fl i ght plan that we had and the briefing guide on

           1tONf'IDENTIAt

--- PAGE 86 ---
78



                      page six,I have already covered the things on

                      platform alinement.     I did not have time to aline

                      the platform.     I tried to get it to somewhere near

                      the local horizontal so that in case we had to do

                      a retrofire I ' d be able to do the Etrofire .     I

                      brought the spacecraft up to a pitch attitude that

                      I hoped was zero,but I never got the spacecraft

                      alined to see that it was zero.       So we really went

                      into this thing without my ever having seen a zero

                      pitch a ttitude on the spacecraft .    Obviously

                      I didn ' t get a chance to see the 30 degree pitch

                      down on the retrofire attitude.       I didn't really

                      have time to look out the window and do a single

                      thing that would have prepared us to reenter at

                      2- 1 because we were so busy keeping track of--
     \   White        You know another thing I ' d say also is that we
     I
                      were eternally optimistic.     We felt we were going


     ~                to aline the platform and watch the booster at the
                      same time .
         r:IcDivitt   As a matter of fact, while I was trying to get the

                      alinement it became apparent to me that I could not
                      aline it.     I even thrusted vertically--

--- PAGE 87 ---
79

McDivitt   I was in a horizontal position and I thrusted

           down using my top thrusters , so that I would

           try to keep the booster in my view.       Thrusting,

           chasing the booster , and alining the platform

           all at the same time-- those are the kinds of

           things you have to do .   So, I never did get the

           platform alined .   I did not have time .     I got

           it somewhere near local horizontal .      If I was

           within pl us or minus 5 degrees in the axis , I

           think I did a reasonably gooi job ,     The

           Thruster Control Mode Checks that took place at
           15 minutes I didn't do as such .    I would just

           thr ow it into a different mode and thrust .      I

           just did it with a catch~as~atch-can .        I did

           check out the different modes .
White      Everything seemed to be working .     You weren ' t

           getting My thrusters that weren ' t f iring, and

           your modes all seemed to me to be working
           pr operly .
McDivitt   It looked pretty good.
White      I had one comment on the Co~munic a tions System

           Check .   Remember we lost good communications
           with No . 1 UHF and we switched to No . 2 and

           seemed to have good communications with it

--- PAGE 88 ---
80



                from th~~1 on?           Now this wasn ' t representative

                that we lost UHF No . 1 beca1lse w0 used bo:h of

                the sets at different tiJWS throughout                  the

                mj_ssion later 0:1 .          But at this particula:-:- time ,

                UHP 1 didn ' t give us good reception 13:1d we

                swi t<~hed .

     McDivltt   I thought comm t"li :-:at.i::ms through the fi1•-it :liv

                of the flight wi;re atrocious .             They were

                terrible .           Finally we switcht~d to th•) .-~~en~ry

                St ub Antenna and that seemed to fix L!w p:>oblern.
                      I
                Didn t you thL1k so?             But you know we went back

                to reentry a n tenna, over Carna:::-vo:i one tine .

                WH got just as good r~cept i ::>:1 o.ff of i t that

                ti.me as we di.d any other ti-:ne .

     White      I remember when you were rnak i.ne- yo·.1r

                Cornmuni catio:J.s Check.         That wa.1 ·.-.r1hm I was

                ai:;leep.      You were ,;h ecki :,1g the two and you

                end<id up with the r eentry antenna .

     McDivitt   Yes , later on in the flight , as I said, at the

                end o.f the fi r. st d9-Y or :30.

     Wh ite     We seemed t o get better communications .

     McDtvitt

                fact , I    W'.:iS   a little concerned that the

                comm..m icati.ons w1;re so lousy th~t W'; might h1we

                 ce~~FIDEl~T~L

--- PAGE 89 ---
81



           to come back in, because we were really losing

           communic ~tions .   We were trying HF and all kinds

           of things .    Information just wasn't getting
           up to us .
White      That was after EVA.
McDivitt   Right .   Communications just weren ' t getting 11p
           to us .
White      I figured we didn't have any communications

           with the ground during EVA.
McDivitt   No, we didn ' t . Our VOX blocked t hem out .
Wh ite     I know i t .

McDivitt   But the Communications Systems Check that was

           supposed to be performed at 15 minutes--
           we sort of already acc omplished the thing,

           because we 'd used UHF No . 1 and No . 2.
White      I made the check with them.
McDivitt   Did you make the check? -- that ' s right you made

           the check but we didn ' t use the HF because we

           weren't going to put the antenna out until after
           EVA.   We didn ' t do anything with the urine

           bags except keep them right where they were .
White      At this time we didn't pressure check both

           suits , because we did this later .
McDivitt   We didn ' t aline the platform , as I mentioned.

           C:0NFt0ENlt~ L

--- PAGE 90 ---
82               GQ ~<IFIDEl>JT IA.L
                The Control Mode Check was a catch- as- catch­

                can .   You did unstow, the equip~ent that we

                were supposed to unstow .       The bl ood pres sure

                bulb, the Hasselblad camera and its packs , a11d

                a 16 mm camera.     During this time when I was

                chasing the booster , I did manage to get to

                reach back behind my seat and pull out the

                bracket for the 16 mm c amera.        You tracked the

                booster while I smoothed the thi.ng ou t .
     White      That I s right .
     McDivitt   We didn ' t get out the urine nozz l e .       How about

                the utility cord?      Did you get out that fancy

                utility 0ord , the three- axis utility cord?
     White      Yes, I knew where i t was.       I didn't give it to
                you beca~se you didn ' t need it .
     McDivitt   No , I didn ' t need it .   That ' s right .   As Ed

                said, we did not pressure check our suits a t 30
                minutes like we were supposed to .
     McDivitt   There ' s this little thing here that says meas11re

                all LV~ .    All I did was put the co~puter in

                Catch- Up, hit the Start Comp button, and just
                l et the numbers fall where t hey would .        At the

                time that we stopped chasing the booster around ,
                I had about 60 f eet/ second in          one window,

                C-O~ ◄ Ftf}EMTIAL

--- PAGE 91 ---
03
           -€0Nf-U)ENT1Al
           30 in another , and 30 in another.      I never really
           ea..11e to a posi tio:1. to try to ni1ll all these

           things out to see what the total 6V was .             I

           was putting in the thrust with mostly the aft

           thrusters and the down-firing top thruster.
           I don't think I used the left and right thruster,

           at all.     I don 1 t think I used the bottom

           thurster at all .    There was no difficulty

           controlling a~y of them .     I used the forward­

           firing thrusters once or twice to try to slow

           dow:i, to take out total velocity.

McDivitt   Then there was the Accelero~eter Bias Check

           which was another one of those things.          I don't
                                                                      l
           know hon I let it get into the flight plan .

White      We both joked about that one , huh , Mac?       We

           were really going to get an Accelerometer
           Check when we were trying to track the booster.

McDivitt   I was putting 1 6V ' s on the IVI 1 s at a rate of a

           foot per minute at least.      We ended up with over

           a foot per minute, I think , over that period
                                  I                          1
           of time .    We couldn t have checked anybody s

           accelerometer bias, so I just didn't even fool
           around with it .    We were supposed- to take a

           blood pressure.     Did you take that blood

            ~ F.10ENTIAL

--- PAGE 92 ---
84
                   OONFIDEN I I.A:L
                 pressure , Ed?
     White       Yes .
     McDivitt    You did ta!<e the blood pressure .
     White       I think I did.     I had it out .   I don ' t know
                 whether they asked for it or not .
     McDivitt    Okay.

     White       I don 1 t remember on that .
     McDivitt    Okey .   We got the ~antity Read off .      I guess

                 we got a t.ime hack so:newhere in there .
     White       They called up I believe. I remember them calling
                 the Quantity Read- Off, and I t urned it 0?~'.
     McD.ivitt   That's right.
     McDivitt    Then it says at one hour we were supposed to

                 W1stow and assemble the maneuvering unit in its

                 16 m:n mount.    I don ' t think we had that stuff
                 out by then , did we?
     White       No .

     McDivitt    You see , this whole flight plan was based on me

                 being able to track the booster witho~t using

                 any thrust , a~d essentially having the space­
                 craft stationary near the booster, without

                 any maneuvering at all , where the station­

                 keeping was a matter of just looking out at the
                 thing and co:1.trolling your attitude with pulse .

--- PAGE 93 ---
85



           We thought that if the booster was stationar~

           we could get in close to it .         We could

           essentially fly a formation by it with mo~e

           a:titude co:1trol than translation control ,

           which l eft me then free to help F.d assemble al l

           this stuff for the EV~.      Well , it turned out that

           I didn ' t dare take my eyes off the booster for

           half a second .     So all tne things that we were

           supposed to do together up until the t ime we

           f inally said goodby to the booster , Ed had to

           accomplish himB11lf .    I was completely unable to

           help him.      The only thing I ma.~aged to do was

           to unstow the 16 lllDl camera bracket and put the

           16 mm camera on.

White      I ~ouldn ' t quite get at that one .
McDivitt   No .     I could nardly get to it .     So we w~re
           probably behind at t he hour mark.         Right?

White      Yes .

McDivitt   Not by an awful lo ~.

White      I knew we had a probl em with the booster , and I

           was more concerned with our problem with the

           booster t han getting the gun and stuff o:it

           then .     I f elt that they w~re both tied together

           and onc e w~ l ost t he booster we didn ' t have a

             EONFIDEN:f.lAt"

--- PAGE 94 ---
86


                  sweat time-wise on making o:1r EVA.         So , I was

                  trying to be of what assistance I could to Jim

                  on watching the booster during these first                    ...

                  critical periods.

     McDivHt      Yes.     It wasn ' t unappreciated because this

                  booster was becoming a speck on the horizon , and

                  if you blinked your eyes you co:1ld very well lose
                  thn dar.r1 thi "lg .

     W"nite       When wa were out that seconi day, I think you

                  said one tiine you did. lose it for a minute.
     McDivi t t   Tha~' s right .

     W!1ite       I was lucky enough to still be seeing it , un~il
                  yo .i started picking it up again .
                    0




     McDivitt     That ' s r.·I.ght .    So, I'm saying it really took

                  t ~o pairs of eyes constantly looking at that

                  booster to keep it in sight.          It's juAt one of

                  those thingH that just took so much time thkt

                  we hadn ' t planned on.        It was almost unbelievable .
     McDivitt     In o:.ir flight plan from an ho:.ir to at1 hour and
                  twenty minutes we don't really show a'.1.ything.

                  Although, here again , we were busy with the

                  booster.      So, when we got l:l.1'.'0und to closing with
                  the boost~r , there wasn't any closing.         We

                  finally got clearance over the United States to stop

                                                 L

--- PAGE 95 ---
~Ot~R0ENrtAf~                                                        s1


           fooling with the booster .               I think this was ·.t.n

           extremely wise dP.cisioo .

McDivltt   I got to Guaymas and I said the booster was

           pull ing aw,zy from us .           We ' d already used abo~t

           100       6.V to stay with it , and I r ecommended

           that w~ just give up on it .                We had to get a

           dee ision imm, idiatel y because I couldn ' t stay
                              0




           with it and 11ot use f\1el at the same t Lme .                     They

           came back from Texas.               I talked to Guaymas and

           got their confirmation from Texas , which was

           only a "Tlatter o.f a couple of m'i.nutes , saying

           leave the booster .            Th9.t was about the only

           thing tney could 3ay .



Wnite      And this was the time I went aft er the gun .

McDivitt   Okay .    At th9.t time we reve.rted fror:i station­
           keeping , which we were both attempting to do

           to EVA preparation, which we both had to do .
                 I
           Thats when Ed went after the gun, and we
           st8J'.'ted our ...,c,.;pa::at.i.0.11.   We wc-::-do ' t .rea1 ly

           far bt-~h..:.nd llt this time .         All WH had to do was

           get the gun out and get the m!'l.neuvering unit .

           The cameras we·c(: already out .               You had the

           Zeiss too , didn ' t yo~?

           -E0NFIDENTJAL

--- PAGE 96 ---
88


     White         Yes .   The Zeiss came out with the Hasselblq,d ,

                   from that S3Jlle package as the movie ca:nera.

                   And the storagf~ certainly wan :i l ::>t easier .

                   What do you think?

     McDiv"a t t   Tbat ' s right .

     White         Particularly getti~g it out that center thing.

                   You can just zip :hem o:.it of there with no
                   probl 1Jra ;lt all.

     McD:ivi tt    So, a~ about 1 : 30 we started to assHmble the

                   gun .   If you look at the checklist, yo:.i see

                   that we probably gcit the gun assembled :Ln
                   nothbg na.t .

     White         It 1 s no problt:im to assemble the gun .
     McDivitt      We started our eg:-ess preparations essentially

                   on time .    As a mattHr df fact , I think we evtm

                   got star ted a little earlier.
     White         Then, we weren ' t worrying abo-;.1t anythi11g else .
     McDivltt      Then , we w:ren I t worrying abo·J."!; staying with

                   the booster.       We probably started it abo~t 1:35

                   or 1: 40 .   Over the States we started our ~gress
                   preparat io~.      We went to our .Jther checklist .
     White         You were o,•er Ascension , calling off the check­
                   list.
     McDivitt      I sta::ted reading the checklist off to Ed and

                   COl>IFJBEN+iN.

--- PAGE 97 ---
EO·MFIDENTIA't:-                                               89


             we w1:nt through it .      He unntowed evet'ything.

             Why don ' t you tell them what you did there, Ed?

             I just read the checklist off to you , and you

             went a.head and riid i.t.

White        Okey .     I had to get bar.k .i.11":o the r"ight -h.md

             box, and I un:=i tow0d the item:, there .           The

             first time I went back in there , I took the

             firs t items out, and I did :1 ot unstow the full
                                                  II
             box .     I rem,~mher I told you,         It I s all comi.r1g

             out , Jim.     I ' m gol11g to bring them all out on

             the 19.11yard. "    Remember?

McDivitt     Right .

White        We'd tak~ them o~f piece by piece if we n eed it .

             At that tim,1 I pill lfld the wh0l,'! lanyard out and

             the cockpit was full of little bags . I was qu.ite

             happy that they had prevailed upon me to put

             a lanyard on all th is equipment .            I had thought

             at one time that it woulri be mvt'd des iri-:l,bl ~ not

             to p,1t a lanya.rcl on .    We 'd been wo:::-k.ing a lot

             in our sim11lations without the lanyard and it

             seemed pretty easy .       But looking at it now, I

             highly recom..n~nd that eve r-ybody k,-lep that stuff

             on a l anyard .

McDiv.i.tt   We would have r eally had a mess if we ' d had all

             -€0NFl0ENflAt· --

--- PAGE 98 ---
90


                those thitJ.gs floating ar.ound .    It was bad

                eno~gh as it was .

     Wnito      Yes , eight or ten of those little bags , and I

                was glad they were all tied Jn to Jne string.

                I could con trol them in t hat manner .           They were

                quite simple to U'lsn3.p .    I thought the snap

                attachmP-nt made it p:::-etty easy to UtJ.stow , and

                selectively pick o~t the items that I wa~ ted .

                I unstowed the pouches that I needed, and then

                we g,)t ready to tak~ the long um'J il ical out .            I

                h'ld a little difficulty .     It toJk m~ about

                three trys to get it out .      It ' s f airly big

                package to come through a small hole .             It was a

                good thing th~t we had tak~n the Velcro off of

                the batch , beoause t here was no tendency for

                any th i. ng to hang up as w,~ remewed it .       On   the

                third try I got it out .

     McDivltt   I thought yo~ did an extremely good jJb getting

                the bag ou~.    You got it out a l ot quicker than



                TC'ai.nec in Houston or in the simlll ator at the

                Cape .

     Whi t e    You didn ' t know it .   It took m.1 th:::-ee tr.rs .

     McDivitt   Wall , maybe it did , but it sure l:,okH i like it
                                                              1




                 CQtqffDfNTtAtl

--- PAGE 99 ---
C~Ptl)E~TIAL                                                  91



           camP. out a lot eaf-Jier.     I thought you got it out

           in a big hurry .       I didn ' t notice that it took

           yo:J. three trys .     I saw you stat't, and then jllst

           a f-Jhort t.i.m,1 la7-er, it was out .

White      Well , it d:id come out pretty easy , and I think

           the storage was .satisfactory , bllt I ' d

           certainly reco1nm,1ricl thA.t noth.i "lg b ~) on ';ht1

           outside to k~ep it from coming vllt.            It's a

           real tough--

McDivltt   Yes , we need the velcro off of there .           We ' re

           pretty wd 1 sure of tha-~ .

White      The reGt of the ::iquipm•:111';- the " y" con:1ectors ,

           the bag thA.t contained the "y" connectors , and

           the attachments for the chest pack , I handed

           to yot1 .   I thi'lk you wi;c~ k:➔ep.L ,1g tra,)k of most

           of those things 1mtil the time I needed them .

McDivitt   Yes , I was .

Waite      The storage of the ventilation module froc:i the

           fioor came off pr~tty easily.            That ' s when 1

           started goi!'lg ahead ;md putting it all on .            You

           read the checklist off to me.            I had gone

           ahead. and done a few things anyhow .          As you

           read them off        I checkP.d them off to be sllre

           that I had done them all .        I think we h-':l.d

           4€0NflDENTIAb

--- PAGE 100 ---
92                cor ◄ FIE>f~IAL

                everything out without m~ch problem at all .             I

                think it took •ls longer actually to p1lt it
                all together. .
     McDivitt   That ' s right .     It d id .   We started going
                through the checklist here and putting the

                things on and W'3 started getting more and more

                rushed .     We were supposed to s tar. t the E[,rress

                Preparation Checklist at abo:it 1:44 .        We
                probsbly sta::-ted it at about 1: 35 or so .        We

                started it about 10 minutes early, roughly ,

                maybe five to 10 min1tes early.          We were

                supposed to be ready to start the depressu r.a7,a­
                tion at 2: 30 over Carnarvvn .
     White      I think I could h.3,ve gone through ari:i l1ook2d

                ev8.rything all up , but I felt that we should

                go -:hc:-ough fairly close to the p~ocedure w1; had
                set up on the checklist.
     McDivitt   That I s r igh t .
     White      I think this slowed us down .
     McDivitt   Well , we set tht, procedure up so tha~ when we

                finished wlth it, it would be right .         I think

                this helter- sk8lter thing that we were being
                forced into was for the birds.          So an Ne g0t

                farther al:mg , it beca;n,~ .:i.ppar,mt to nt, that
                 eot~Ftl:>ENll-AL

--- PAGE 101 ---
~ I DEN f ~kl111                                                    93


            the thing to do wo~ld be to stop .

White       Right .

McDivltt    Go aht-,acl with the assembly of the stuff .             Why

            d-:m 1 t you cor.1:nP.n~ on that?

White       I I ve co;::rnt'.!nted in my Self Debr: ~efing aboc1t th,?

            equipment and the assembly of it .            I thought
            thec-e was no d-i.fficul ty at all in conrn-,cti 1g

            the "y" connectord, the hoses,          anj   the chest

            pack .    I thought the connection of th•e chest

            pack to 11\Y harness was a good o~e .         With the
            velcro I could m•, we it in and -:)Ut wheneve.c I

            waa~ed to s:) th at I could mak~ '!\}' connec tiorrn
            on the i,il,?t side of the ECS hoses .          It w.mt

            along pretty smoothl y , as a matter of fact .                 I

            think as we progressed along in it though , we
                                                                 I
            felt tha~; we hA.Cl r3ve.cythi'.'.lg d,me .   I didn t

            rea.11.y feel that; w: hail 13verything done 1,n a

            thorough manner .      And I think yo'J. had that sarnr~

            feel i.ng.

McDivlH     That ' s right .   Wnen W8 got to Kan:) or Tana1.,;1.r·Lve

            - ~I th::nk it was TananR:-'l. ve --I cal'led whoe ver

            I was talking to and sai<l that we were :rLl.Ilfl.i.ng

            late and I thought that we would probably not

            do the EVA on thi.s particular .cev .          I krtew thn,t

           • CONFIDENl~At

--- PAGE 102 ---
94



                 l:,okl~d to 1:1,? l i.kc~ we had ,il 1. the stuff hookr.d
                                       I
                 up , but Wf; hl3.dn t really had a chance to check

                 it .   I also noticed , Ed , that you W':re gr~tting




                 this whol ~ thing off .          So I tol d them over

                 Tananar.ive- -I believe it was Tan~n~rive- -that




                 dP.pressurize at the ne xt station .             We went on

                 ahead and it looked to me like yo~ were all

                 hooked up and 9.bo11 t ready to g';) except for. <me

                 thing.

     Wh::.t':l   W,~ for.got   tht1   thi~rm.-.11 glOV':~ .   I d i.i not have

                 my ther.,n.-tl. gloves on .

     McDivitt    You did not have the the::-m.,l gloves oa , which

                 is aor t of insigaif icant , but we hadn ' t really



                 sure that l t wa.~ l.n t"le ri.gh":; sp-:,t .

     Wh ite      w,~ l l , we talked a~d yo:.1 said , "~9.t d,:, you
                 think? "   We talked it over:- and I had the same

                 feeling . I though":: it sur.e wo~lld oe sm,1.r t if we

                 had abo11t W rni'lntes to just; sit her~ r,➔ al still

                 €eNft0EN=J:l-AL

--- PAGE 103 ---
CONFIDE~il~l-                                                  95


           befoce we go out .

McDivitt   I think w~ w·are in a situation w~ere it would

           probably hava gone all right .              We hr-ui cor:ipl,3ted



           hai rlo:w as far as the check.i.'lg w~nt , and I

           juat di:in 1 t feel th'3.t we were i11 the right

           shape .       Ed didn't think we were , and besides , I
                                                I
           could see Bd.              He coul,ln t see himself .    ~d

           look'.-!d a.wf.1lly hot , s.rvl h;? l:iokt~d like he wa:1
                           0




           getting a little pooped out from playl ng c1..-:-01md

           with that big suit .              I tho~ght that the best
           thing for his sake , e.nd I kn~w h~~ ·t1oul<'l.n ' t

           ad.mi-'.; i. t , wa~, to l13t him r~st up for anot'1er

           o.cb i. t .

White      I     agree         that    was    the best judgment .

McDivitt   So , when w~ go-t to ~arnarvon--I g,1ess i t was

           Carnarvon--I cal led them A. 'ld sa.:i.n r,m wc-Jra not

           goi:1g !;o co □c out on tha:': or':>:. t .

Whit9      It wa,, Carr1arv0n .           It was just before we



McDivitt   So , we postponed it until the next orbit .                   As a

           matter of fact , after that w~ j1rnt sat ther::! .

           We d idri I t dn a thi-ig for abor.1: 10 mi.nutes .            I

           let Ed cool off a li.ttle bit .             We were on two-
               EON~l(;)ENTIAL

--- PAGE 104 ---
96


                fa'1 o;>eration ,q,-: the time.      We j·.1st sat there

                and we were cooled o.! 'f .      We went ~o,x1.d for



     White      Okey .      The.n as w~ wr:n '; back around , I asked yo,J.

                to go thro:;.gh the checklist ag-'3.in , a "'.ln. ·,m wen';

                through item by item this time .

     McDivltt

                bi.11-:k to the beg-Lrming checkl i.st , the EgL·ess

                Prepa':.'ati:>n Checklist .     We started at the

                top 0111; , and we dU. every step on it again .

                We verified e ve ry s tep to make s1u·e ,rn hr-tdn ' t

                left an;rthi--ig out .

     WhL te     We actually went in ~d check8d t hi s time .

                Another thi ng ,m ha<ii'i' t r eally positively

                check9d was the posi tio11 of all the locks on all

                of the hose i.n~e ts and o•J. t.l ,~ ts .   This time ·,,e

                ac t ually chi,ck~d .<J.11 those lock~d .      Al 1 of them

                W<:'t'e   locked in , but it was a good t hing to do,

                I believe .

     McDivitt   You want to rnakA sure .       We di:i d o ou:r Suit

                h-tegi.'ity Check hefor,~ we started a ll this stuff .

     Wo.ite     That ' s rigbt .    We started before we actually went

                to the unstowing of the stuff from the right-

                hand a f t fo od bo:x.    We went    to the S:1i t
                 GOr~Fl0EN-ltAL

--- PAGE 105 ---
eo~+F-10-EN.TJAL                                             97


             It1 ~2gt'-i. ty Check .

McD:ivitt   Well , I don ' t know 'tihere it is , but we did it

            when we were s 111)posed to d·::> it .

McDivitt    We did the .&lit I ntegrity           heck befo:ce we

            started the .Egt•e ss Pr~paration 0he.-;klist .

            That ' s when ·,.e did it , over the States .

White       I think we d-Ld thA.t just about the t .ime you

            decided to give up on the booster .            We di1 the

            Suit        In~egTi.t;y Check .    Both suits checkHd ::>ut

            all right . I t we nt up to 8.5 and it leaked
            do~ to about 8 . 3 Qr som,,thing l i.kH that .

McDivitt    Same thing with mine .            It went up to 8. 5 and

            laak1--?d down ju:1t a little bit .        Not enough

            to ~e concerned about .

White       No .    Oh , one thing that we d id do on that extra

            orbit that w~ went around -- I discon_~ected the

            .0epress 0ystem 1ind we Wf.: mt back nn the--

McDi vitt   Oh , yes .      We never e ·.ren got on the .;·_e press

            system, di.d we?

White       Yes , I be lieve w•~ were , but then we turned it

            off .   We w~re already to depressurize and then

            wcj wimt back on the spacecraft ECS system, full,

            and ~ent through and reverified the whole

            checklist again .          The onl y thi 1gs that I would

             (;6)N.f-lDENTIM
                    •

--- PAGE 106 ---
98

                                I
                say we h~dn t done to ffi3" sati.sfacti.,_.,n t"le fi.r;;t

                time ,1as t:J check the inlet an<l 011tlet positions

                o f the locks , and I didn ' t have my tho?rmal

                gloves on .         It turnAd out I didn ' t need them .

     McDivitt   Also , d 1r.i11g this pe.clod of timr-i 1 R..l i.ned. tht,

                pL1tfor1n, ;.rh.i.ch war. ~onpl ~ tely in .i. s:i1 i.nP.d .       It

                w:.:1s probably alined within a c-:iuple d,=1g1.-ees ,

                but as we went a-r.ou:'1d in Orbit Rate it g0t

                farthP.C' anrt farther 0;1-'; of tol?r-:in.~e .         So , I

                m:uvv~d ·to a 1 .i.1e the pl-:i.tfo.rra.      Here agllin , I

                m.i..ght com,1.mt on the fan t that ou:::- in i ti,9.l

                flight plan was so optimistic that it was

                almoat unbelievable .          The both o~ ua wurk~d full

                time :>n doing r 10 tn; 'lg ex•)ept pc,~par.ine for EVA,

                aJ1.11 we dldn ' t quite gHt thA job done .             I ca11 ' t

                believe that we could ·'lA.ve poss ibly flown

                f o:-mation w:i. th the booster and taken pictures

                of it and all the other thi 'lgs t:i.at we had



                and even comH close to compl-? ting it .

     White      Well , the way we wo11ld h'3.ve had to do it, would

                have been witho11t a checklist .              I would h~va had

                to just go ahead :.md ~1:>ok c~verything •... p .             I

                think tl'J could 111-w-3 do,w it satisfact)rily l-i

                 C~~ftDEN-l+AL

--- PAGE 107 ---
EONfl0ENTIAL                                           99

            this manner , but it wouldn ' t have been the way

           we would have wanted it .
McDivitt   Yes, that ' s right .    I don't think that ' s the

           way it should be done .      It was just too bad

           that we had a time limit on it , but when we did

           get rid of the booster, or the booster no

           longer became a part of the flight plan , then the

           time limit vanished.       We found out that we

           really needed that extra orbit, or probably could

           have used another 20 minutes.
White      Yes.    We went back.     And I remember as we came

           over Carnarvon, we had about a 15 minute chat

           back and forth- kind of a rest period .        We

           were all hooked up at that time , and that ' s the

           time we went on the ~epress flow, ready for the

           depressurization .      I think they gave us a GO
           then for our EVA.
McDivitt   That ' s right .   We depressurized the cabin and

           got down to 2 psi to check our blood pressure .
           We tried to put our blood pressure plugs in

           the blood pressure plug port and found out that

           we didn't have any blood pressure plugs on

           e ither- suits .   This was quite a surpri se .     An

           unpleasant one , I might add .     Well , we dec i ded

--- PAGE 108 ---
100



                 that from our past experience and our

                 knowledge of the suit that even if we did

                 spring a leak in the blood pressure cuff the

                 size hole that we had in the suit would not be

                 catastrophic , and we decided to go ahead with

                 the EVA.

      White      It was within the·capability of the syst em we

                 were using.

      McDivitt   At Carnarvon we not onl y got the go- ahead to

                  start t he depressurazation , we also got the go-

                 ahead to open up the hatch , the go- ahead that

                 we weren ' t supposed to get until Hawaii .      So ,

                 -  - .______
                 we went ahead and did that .

      White      Yes .   I ' m kind of curious of the whole time .       We

                 were out nearly an orbit , I think .    We didn ' t

                 get it closed back again till we got back around

                  to Carnarvon .

      McDivitt   We were in a whole orbit depressurized .

      White      Yes , I don ' t think people quite realize that .
      McDivitt   We ' ll remind them .   As we got to the hatch
                  opening t hi ng , we had our first difficulties

                  with the hatch .   The gain gear , I guess you want

                  to call it--actually I call it the ratchet­
                 didn ' t want to engage into the UNLOCK position .

--- PAGE 109 ---
101



        We fooled with it a f ew times a~d it f inally

        engaged in t he UID.iOCK position , and Ed was

        able to go ahead and start .

White   The first indication of trouble was when I

        unstowed the handle to open the hatch .      The

        handle free ly moved up and dovm with no tension

        on it at all .      I knew righ t away where the

        trouble was .      It was up in that little spring

        on the gain pawl .      So , I went up and manipulated

        it back and forth in hopes that I could break

        the lubrication loose in the spring to get it

        to work.   We must have spent several minutes

        with t he hatch.     I thought perhaps it might

        have been stuck in the manner that the hatch got

        stuck   in t he Wet MOc k , where it just was stuck.

        You could ratchet it open , but the hatch itself

        wouldn ' t open.    It was pretty apparent the trouble

        was in the gain pawl .      I jimmied it back and

        for t h, and then I decided to go ahead and try

        the technique of actuating it in sequence

        with the hatch handle .      If you actually replaced
        the operation of the spring with mechanically

        moving the gain pawl up and down, you can do

        the same work that the spring does .
         EONFtDENTIA~

--- PAGE 110 ---
102



      McDivitt   Your fingers sort of take the place of the

                 spring and drive this l ittle pawl home .
      White      This is the first time we actually tried this

                 in a suit .   It requires you to press up with

                 your left arm to get at the gain pawl, and at

                 the same time hold yourself down .      And I think

                 l ater on t his was a source of some of our

                 problems whi ch I brought out now so that we can

                 find out later on.   I f e l t it start to engage ,

                 and start to ratche t the lugs out .     Jim also

                 verified that they were coming open.        I backed

                 them off , and I remember Jim saying "Ooop ! Not

                 so fast !", and at t hat time it popped .       The

                 hatch actually popped open , jumped open about

                 3 or 4 inches .
      McDivitt   I was expecting the hatch t o come open with a
                 bang.   Although we had the cabin to vent and it

                 had bled on down to where there was nothing

                 indicated on the Cabin Pressure Gage , we still

                 really had the repress valve on.       He was

                 bleeding right into the spacecraft .     We never

                 got down to a vacuum and even though we had a
                 cabin pressure of only a tenth of a psi , we

                 spread it over t he entire area of that hatch,
                  OONFl0E~TV\L

--- PAGE 111 ---
103


           and that puts a pretty good size forc e on it .

           I had a real tight hold on the hatch closing

           device , and when it popped open I was able to

           snub it .

White      It didn ' t really open with much force , did it?

McDivitt   Well, it did.      It opened with a fai r amount .       It

           popped and I couldn ' t stop it the first inch

           or so .     Then , of course , as soon as it opened
           that much pressure bled off .       I just sort of

           snubbed the thing to keep it from fly ing all

           the way open.      Now if I hadn ' t been holding onto

           it, I don ' t think it would have gone open more

           than two or three feet .

White      This is another point too .       There ' s more force

           on the hatch actuator than I thought .        I didn ' t

           just flip the door open with my hand .        I had to

           actually forcibly push it open , similar to the

           forc e with which I opened the hatch laying on

           my back under one ti g II .   That ' s about the force

           that I had to put on the hatch to open it .

McDivitt   This extra force that we are talking about is

           due to the 0-rings they put in the pyres that

           are used for jettisoning the hatch .        This is

           something that they put in just before the

           Ee-NFt0ENTIM.

--- PAGE 112 ---
104
               OO~~FK:>fN--TIAL
              flight .     Something that we 'd gone out to the

              spacecraft t o feel .    We knew just about wh at t he
              force was , but it was pretty high .
      White   Okay.      At thi s time I had certain things that I

              had to accomplish .     I had to mount the camera

              on the back of the adapter , and mount t he

              umbilical guar d on the edge of t he door . I

              elected, as I had pl anned , to go ahead and mount

              the camera f irst and then the umbilical guard .

              I mounted the camera and it went on without too

              much difficulty.      The t hree little lugs on the

              bottom are a good mounting scheme .     I think I

              would make a littl e eas ier engaging device for

              working out in a hard suit .     I had familiarity

              with it , and it did lock up there all right .

              The umbilical guard for the umbi lic al on the

              side of the door took me a little longer to
              mount .    Back to opening the hatch--I had the

              thermal gloves on when we were opening t he

              hatch , and because of the fine work I had to do
              with the little gain and the drive lugs up

              there , I had to remove the thermal gloves so
              thtt I could actually actuate those small
              l evers.    I couldn ' t do them with any precision
               EOl'JFIDEN+JAL

--- PAGE 113 ---
G()NFIE>ENTIAt                                       105



with my gloved hand .      So, I took the thermal

gloves off at this time and I handed them to

Jim.     When I got back out I didn't notice

any temperature extremes .      I felt quite confident

that there wouldn I t be any heat since we just

came out of the dark side , so I decided to do

the actual work in putting this equipment on

with my plain pressure suit gloves .      I had much

more feel with them .      Let me get back now to the

umbilical guard on the door .      I t went on pretty

well .     It took me a little longer and it took

me four or five trys to get the little pin into

the hole that actually snubbed the guard down

on the door .     I did something then that I

hadn ' t planned to do .    The bag had floated up

and out of the spacecraft and now it was above

the point where the hose was going through the
umbilical guard .     I had planned to keep it down

inside .     I left it there for two reasons :   (1)

I figured it was there already and I would have

had to take the umbilical cord off again and

scooted it back down , and (2) I also felt that

Jim might have had a better view if it wasn't

sitting right in front of him on the hose coming

 CONflDENTIA~

--- PAGE 114 ---
106



                 up from th1~r ~press v ,1.lve .     I elect ed to go ahead

                 and leave the bag there .         I t hen reported to

                 Jim that I had everything all mounted and was

                 ready to go .     I had planned to take a short

                 series of pictures.      Since we had gotten out

                 early, I had a little extra time at this time ,

                 so I went ahead and turned the outside EVA

                 camera on .     I took a short sequence of pictures

                 that actually gives the egress up out of the

                 seat .   I kind of went back down and came out
                 again so they would get an actual picture

                 of it , and then I turned the camera off again .

                 I mounted the camera and I turned it on while it

                 was on the mount .    I took a short sequence when

                 I asked Jim to hand me my l eft thermal glove ,

                 which he did .    I put the thermal glove on while

                 the camera was running.       I t urned back around .

                 I wanted to be sure the camera was off , so I

                 took it off the mount and I turned the camera

                 off and actually visually took a look to see if

                 the switch was off.

      McDivitt   Did you lmock it off one time?          I thought you

                 said the camera f ell off .



                  GO MF tf}ENftA L

--- PAGE 115 ---
107
           €0tt<tFIDENTIA-6 -
White      By golly , I did .     So I must of mounted it four

           times .   That ' s right , I knocked it off one time

           during this time when I was out there .          I got
           the picture of the egress , and then I asked you

           t o hand me the gun .     At th is t i me the camera

           wasn ' t running.     I had the glove on my l eft
           hand , and I went ahead and t ook t he gun and made

           sure that it was ready to go.        I had the

           camer a on at that time and the val ve was on .          I
           checked the valve to be sure it was on and I

           was essent iall y ready to go .     I don ' t know how
           l ong this took , but it took me longer than I

           thought .   We had had early egress and it wasn ' t

           too much bef ore I got the GO t hat I was ready to

           leave the spacecraft .

McDivitt   I ' m not sur e whether we got that GO from

           Hawaii or Guaymas .       I sort of suspect that we

           got that GO f r om Hawaii , not Guaymas as we had

           originally planned .

White      Well , it sure seemed short from the time I was

           mounting all t hat stuff out there to the time

           you told me go.

McDivitt   That ' s right .     I ' m sure we were talking to

           Hawaii , and they said you ' re clear to proceed

            -ee·NFI0EN1=·1Ab.

--- PAGE 116 ---
108



                 with EVA.

      White      And that ' s when I went .     I bet we went out at

                 Hawaii .

      McDivitt   I think we went out at Hawaii.

      White      I delayed from the time you gave just a minute ,

                 long enough to actuate the camera on the

                 outside .     This was kind of interesting.     When I

                 actuated that camera, I had D\Y gun tied to my

                 arm with the tether .      It floated freely to my

                 right .      I turned back around and turned the switch

                 ON on the camera, and listened and made sure

                 the thing was running.        I knew it was running,

                 and put it down.       I think you 'll see t his on

                 the film.       I wanted to be sure it was running

                 when I mounted it back there .       I actually took
                 it off and turned it on, and I remember it

                 jiggling up and down when I was trying to stick

                 it on there .      It ought to be a funny looking
                 film .     And it might even show the gun floating

                 beside me as I was mounting it .       That ' s when
                 you said, "Slow down.        You ' re getting awfully

                 hot . "    I was working pretty hard to get that
                 on.       I mounted the camera again and this is

                 where I tried to actually maneuver right out

--- PAGE 117 ---
109



           of the spacecraft .     I knew right away as soon as

           I got u~I felt even before - - that the technique

           of holding on to the bar in the spacecraft and

           sticking a finger in the RCS thruster wasn ' t

           going to wor k .   I mentioned that to Jim before -­

           that I didn ' t think I would be able to do it .

McDivitt   I think that you and I both knew how you were

           going to do, and ever-sbody else was planning for

           us how we were going to do it , but without any

           real experience in it. People. who didn I t know

           a lot about it were planning this sequence a~d

           it wasn ' t the way it should have been .

White      I couldn ' t have done that .   I didn ' t have three

           hands .   I couldn ' t hold the gun and put a
           finger in the RCS nozzle , and hold the handle

           at the same t.ime .    I thought it would be more

           d~sira.bl:'; anyhow to actually depart the space­

           craft with no ·.re locity, other than that imparted

           by the gun.    This is exactly what I did .      I

           thought t hat I was free of the spacecraft , and

           I fired the gun.      I real'i.zed that my legs were

           still dragging a little bit on the side of the

           seat , so I pulled myself out until I could

           see that my feet 1vere actual l'•' on!; 0f the

--- PAGE 118 ---
110
                   CSl>,lflQEDlllA I
                  spacecraft .        I think you called me and said I

                  was out of the spacecraft .

      McDivitt    I called and told you that you wer e cl,3n.r .

                  That ' s right .

      White       And that ' s when I started firing the gw:i a"ld

                  act~ally pr~pelled myself under the influence

                  of the gun .        I don ' t believe I ga ve any input

                  into the spacecraf"t whm1 t 1,3ft that t Lne ,

                  did I?

      McDivit t   No , you left as clea,1 as a whistle .

      White       Later on , I gave you some pre tty big ones .

      McDivitt    You were re~lly boun0ing arou~d then .

      White       Now at the tjme, J l ef t entire ly under the

                  influence of the gun avid it 0arried me right

                  straight oat, a little higher tha"l I wanted

                  to go .     I wanted to ma:.~euver over to your side ,

                  but I maneuv•;r~d out of the spacecraft and

                  forward ru1d pBrhaps a little higher· than I

                  wanted to be.         When I got out; to whst I estimate   •   I

                  as p~obablyone- half or two-thirds the way out on the
                  tether, I was out past the nose of ·t'ne

                  spacec:::-clf t .   I started a yaw to the left with

                  the gun and that ' s when I reported th~t the
                  gun r 8al1J worked quite well.          I believe that I

--- PAGE 119 ---
111
 ~ONFl01:~TtAT
stopped that yaw, and I started t .1.·a.nsla:b.•   1-"'




back toward the spacecraft .       It was either on

this translation or t~'1P. one following this that

I got into a bit of a combination of a pi·tcl-i

roll and the yaw together .      I felt that I could

have corrected it , but I knew tha. t i.t ww.~d h av0

ta.-<e.'1 mor,-: f...i.el than I had wanted to expend with

the gun , so I gave a little tug Jn the tether
and came back in.     This is the first experience

I had with tether dynamics and it brought me

right back to where I did not want to be .            It
brought me right ba~k on the top of the sp~ce­

craft , by the adapter section.       Jim was

calling me and said that I was out of his sight .

I told him that I was all right , that I was up

above the spacecraft , I looked down and I could

see attitude thrusters firing , littl-~ white

puffs out o~ each o~e .     I wasn I t very close .

They looked j ust like what Chamberlain ' s report

told us .   It looked just like about a foot and
a half or maybe 2 feet of plume from the space­
craft and certainly didn I t look omin-.11H.~ to me

at all .    In fact it looked kind of like the

spacecraft was r eally alive and working down
 <;.eN·FtDENTfA-t,.

--- PAGE 120 ---
112
                  CDr ◄ FIDiNI IAJ..

                 there .     I knew Jim was doing his job holding

                 attitude for me .

      McDivitt   Let me comment on the attitude- holding right

                 now.      Initially we started out in blunt-end­

                 forward. banked to the left about 30 degrees or

                 so .   This happened to be the attitude we were

                 in .   We wanted to be bl u:~t- end- forward for the

                 sun . and they told me it didn ' t make any
                 difference what attitude that we were in when

                 we opened up the hatch .     We had originally

                 planned on opening the hatch toward the ground .

                 I was CRlled by some station that said it didn't

                 make any difference what attitude I was in when

                 I opened the hatch .     We opened   the hatch .    We

                 opened it in that particular attitude, and I

                 held the attLtude for the f irst portion of the

                 time that Ed was out .     When you had th" gun you

                 managed to stay reasonably well out in front .

                 I held the sp~cecraft essentially stationary

                 with respect to the local horizontal .      After

                 yvJ. ran out of f uel in the gun yo'J. were on top

                 of the spacecraft all of the tim~ .      I felt that

                 unless you really had to have the thing

                 stablized , to maintain your S•?nse of balance or
                  EO~~FIBf~TiAL

--- PAGE 121 ---
CO~◄ FH:>·EN'fl7'L                                     113


           whatever you want to 8all it, I wouldn't fire

           the thrusters .

White      You asked that already wnen I was out .

McDivitt   Yes .     I asked you if you needed it and you said

           no .    So , then I felt it would be better not

           to fire the thrusters , because you were drifting

           back up over the co~kpit .       I could see that you

           were going up over us .      I couldn ' t see back

           behind me , but I could see by the motions that

           you had when you went by me that yuu were going

           to continue on .      I felt th~t it would be a lot

           safer if we just let the spacecraft drift

           unless it got into very high rates .        I fired the
           jets a couple of times just to bo~k ,:,.ft the

           rates .     I let it start drifting when y0u got

           on the tether so tha~ you wouldn 1 t get back

           there on top of one of those thrusters when I

           fired them .     From abou-: the time? you ran out of

           fuel until you got back in I didn 1 t do mu-:::h

           attitude controlling.       I did some .   Everytime

           the rates got up pretty high, I 1 d knock them

           off .     You were able to ma...~euver around the

           spacecraft when the spacecraft itself had rates

           of say plus or minus • 2 degrees/second in a
            <;9·M'FID ENTIAl

--- PAGE 122 ---
114


              couple of the axes at the same time .         Here again

              before the flight we discussed the axis system.

              Ed selected the spacecraft as his axis system.

              It didn ' t a:;:>pear that he was having a bit of

              trouble with i t .   He was maneuvaring with

              respect to it , regar,lless of what the earth ,

              sun , moon , a~d stars were doing .     It was

              pretty ob\·i,..,us to me th:l.t was exactly what he

              was doing .
      White   Well , when I came back the firs t tims to ·~he

              spacecraft with the gu-:r-- I had used the tether

              to bring me back-- I did go back up on the

              adapter area.     This is the first time it had
              happened .    I said , "All right .   I ' m ~omL'1g

              back out again."     This is one of the most

              impressive uses of the gun that I had .         I

              started back out with that gun, and I decided

              that I would fire a pretty good burst too .            I

              started back out with that g.m , a.~d I literally            •
              f lew with the gun right down along the edge of

              the spacecraft , right out to the front o~ the

              nose , a..'1d out past the end of the nose .        I then
              actually stopped myself with the gun .         Tha t was

              easier than I thought .     I must have been fairly
                            tD~L

--- PAGE 123 ---
115



fortunate , because I must have f ired it right

thro..igh my CG.      I stopped out there and , if my

memory serves me right , this is where I tried

a couple of yaw maneuvers .       I tried a couple

of yaw and a co:..1.ple of pitch maneuvers , and then

I started firing the gun to come back in .          I

think this was the time that the gun r an out .

And I waa actually able to stop myself with it

out there that second -';:irne too .   The longest

fi r ing time that I put on the gun was the one

that I used to start over the door s up by the
adi=tpter section .    I started back out then .        I

probably fired it for a one second burst or

something like that .       I used small burst all the

time .   You could put a little burst in and the

response was t r emendous .     You could start a

slow yaw or a slow pitch .       It seemed to be a

rather efficient way to operate .       I would have

liked to have had a thre~ f oot bottle out there-­

the bigger the better.        It w~s quite easy to
control .   I f eel that with the gun there would

be no dif ficul ty in maneuvering back to t he a.ft

end of the spacecr:eif+ , and r.h;.s was exac tly

what I did later oi-1 , j u st on the tether .     I got
 CO~ff)EN"FIA~

--- PAGE 124 ---
116
                  CONEJDtNI-l~
                 all the way back.      So , I ran ou~ of air with
                 the g~n ani I reported this to Jim .       I didn ' t

                 attempt to take al}Y p-Lotures while I was

                 aotually maneuvering with the gun .      The

                 techniq·.1e th;,.t I used with the gun W 3.S tne

                 te:.!h.aiq 1e ~hat we developed on the air- bearing

                 platform.      I kept my left hand out to the side,

                 and the gun as close to my cente::- of grcrri ty

                 as I could .    I think l;hat the training I had ,)n

                 the air- bearing tables was very representative ,

                 especially in yaw and pitch .     I felt quite

                 confident with the g.m in yaw a:u pitch , but I

                 f elt a little l ess confident in roll .     I f elt
                 that I would have to use too mich of my fuel .

                 I f elt that it wo~ld be a little more difficult
                 to control and. I didn ' t ,,,ant to use my fuel

                 to take out my roll combination with the yaw .

                 We divided our plan so tha.t I would havd a part

                 of it on the ma.YJ.euver and a part of it on the

                 tether .    I don't know how far along we were
                 whP.n the gun ran out .

      McDivitt   Right on schedule when the gun ran out .       We

                 planned f ollr minutes for the gun port ion of it .

                 We were just abQut on schedule .

                  GeN FID ENTIA-l

--- PAGE 125 ---
..CE>-NFIDENTl~ l:-                                            117


White       I bet we used a little more than four , because

            I think we came out earlier th'll1 we thought .

Mc Divitt   No , I sta~ted the event timer to time it .

White       Well, this is where m:r control difficulty
                                                                  I
            began .     As soon as my gun ran out I wasn t

            able to control myself the way I co-..1ld with

            the gun .     With that gun , I coi.lld decide to go

            to a part of a spacecraft and very confidently

            go .   I think right no·,. that .1. wish that I ha:i

            given Jim t he gun ,u1d taken t he camera off ,

            Nov, I was working on taking some pict.1res

            and "lorking on the tethe:r dynamics .          I immediately

            realized what was wrong.          I realized that our

            tether was mounted on a pl ane ohlique .to the

            angle in which I wanted to translate .            I
            remem·i:cL' i'.c-•.1::n our air-bea:::-ing work that every·-

            time you got at an angle from the perpendicula-:7

            where yom.· tether wafl r:iounted , it gave yo.1 a

            nice a::-cing trajectory back in t he opposite

            direction.      You I re actuall y like a weight on

            the end of a str ing.       If you push out in one

            direc;tion , and you ' re at 911 angle fron ~he

            perpendicular , when you reach the end of a

            tether , it neatly sends you in a long ar.c ba:k

             e6NFIDENrlAc--

--- PAGE 126 ---
118



      in ~he opposite dir ection.             Each time this arc

      carried me right back to the top of the

      ad.9,ptec- , to th~ i;np ,.:;(' 1,;he s_pa~e(;raft , in fact

      toward the adapter section.               One time I w11s so
      close to the t hrusters back there that I called
         • .
      J :i.;n   I s,:u.•d , "Don I t f ire
                                       .   a.nymor:; . ti , b eca.use

      I was right on the thrusters .               I was even
      closer than that f oot and a hal f wh.ich I had

      noted to be tne leng!;1:1 of the thz-uster plumes ,

      and I didn ' t want to sit on a firing thruster .




      °CONFIDENT'IAL

--- PAGE 127 ---
119




White       We were discussing the EVA and I was si:1.ying that

            I spent approximately 70 percent of my time , it

            seemed , trying to get out of the area back a:1ove

            the spacecr aft in the adapter area .

McDivitt    Yes , you intended to go toward the position that

            was directly over the cockpit .                You always arced

            passed it beca.11,•11~ y ::n    W1'l ce   coming from the front .

White       This was exa~ t ly rig'•rl. because that ' s exac Uy

            wher e my tether was connected .               Chris had been

            very emphatic that he wanted me to stay out of
            this area , and I had agreed to stay out of there .

            I tell you , I was doing my level best to keep

            out but the tether dynamics just put me back

            there all the time .
McDivi tt   Let me inter ject something here.                When we were

            talking about the control modes and how we were

            going to control the spacecraft , we decided on

            the Pulse Mode rather than the Horizon Scan

            Mode , or anything like th..,t .             The Horizon Scan
            Mode     would    leave        me free to use both hands to

            take pictures of you and that way I wouldn ' t

            have had to control the spacecraft .                But since it

             CONFl0EN-'flAL~

--- PAGE 128 ---
120



                 was an automatic mode and it fired whenever it

                 felt like firing. It didn't give us any flexibil ­

                 ity, and . this is why I felt that the best mode

                 to be in was Pulse , in case you did get back

                 there .

      White      That ' s exactly what happened .

      McDivitt   I didn't have to worry about the thruster going

                 off in your face .   I didn't want the thrust ers

                 to fire and they didn't fire because I didn't

                 touch t hem . It was a wise choice .

      White      I think this was good .   When you look at it

                 f r om a picture-taking viewpoint , it gave a

                 wider spectrum of pictures.        You got different

                 views of the earth and the horizon .       I ' m glad

                 we weren 't held to a specific mode .



      McDivitt   I think that the picture we did take or the

                 attitude that we started out , which is shown i n

                 the newspaper , is just about right .



      McDivitt   I guess we banked over to the right, I don ' t know.

      White      That must have been just as I came out .

      McDivitt   I don't remember, but it had enough of the

                 ground in the background so that it was certainly

                 CO~FTDENT~L

--- PAGE 129 ---
ce,~F~f>ENsrlAL                                           121



           worthwhile.

White      On one of my passes back to the adapter area I

           got so far back that I was about 3 or 4 feet from

            the adapter separation plane, perpendicular to

            it .   It was rather jagged .   There did appear

            to be some sharp edges but it really didn't

            look very imposing to me . I took a picture of it .

           That's one picture that I believe was good and

            should come out.

McDivitt   The trouble is it was probably set on infinity

           and you were up about 5 feet .

White      No , I set the camera to about 15 feet or so .          It

           might be a little fuzzy because it was too close.

White      No, I didn ' t see the far side of the adapter .            It
           didn't go all the way around .      I think I could

           have pushed off and gotten back that far.

McDivitt   No .    Better to s t ay away from it.

White      Well, I felt that if I got going I could h~ve

           swung all the way around and had my umbilical

           right on the edge, without anything to hold on to
            or any gun to control myself.      This didn't seem

            like it was at all safe and I had told Chris that

           I wouldn ' t go behind the craft.        So I didn ' t go
           back there .
           -e(:)'Nf       ro ENrttrt

--- PAGE 130 ---
122


      McDivitt   That must have bee~ just about the time I told

                 you to come back in .

      White      No, I would estimate this was about two-thirds of

                 the way and about this time I was after pictures.

                 I knew this was a part of the flight plan that I
                 had, in my mind , fulfilled satisfactorilly.        So

                 I tried to get some pictures and this is where I

                 really impar ted some velocities, trying to get

                 away from the spacecraft into a position so I

                 could take a picture.     I went out to the end of
                 my tether cord quite a few times doing this .

                 I seemed like every time I would be completely

                 180 degrees to the spacecraft .     I'd have

                 beautiful views of the ground but I couldn ' t

                 see the spacecraft.     It was a definite mistake

                 to mount the camera on the gun .     That made it

                 very difficult to use the camera .     I had to
                 point not only the camera but the gun with the

                 long thrusters mounted out on the little arms.
                 I 'd want to take a picture of an object like t he

                 spacecraft, • and there were too many loos~ items

                  to get tangled up      in and block the camera .       I
                 know my tie-down strap was floating loose .         I

                 had left that out intentionally so that I could

--- PAGE 131 ---
-CONFIBENf-1-M                                         123


get it later on anytime I had to pull my helmet

down .   Occasionally when I got in close to the

spacecraft, the bag and strings associated ..,,-; th

the bag were tangling up around the vicinity of

the gun and the camera .      And it seemed like

the umbilical was right in front of the camera

all the time .      So , I think the pictures will

verify that I was flicking my right arm quite

a bit in the l atter part of the flight , trying

to clear things out from in front of it to get

a picture .    Whenever I was in a position to get a

picture it seemed like I was facing away from the

spacecraft .     I took a couple of shots in desper­
ation and I think I might have gotten a piece of

the spacecr aft .     But I never got the picture that
I was after .     I wanted to get a picture of Jim

sitting in that spacecr aft, through the open

hatch , with the whole spacecraft .     I know that I

didn ' t get that .    In fact, as time went on I

realized that I wasn ' t going to get much of a
picture .     I was trying everything I knew to get

out there and get stabilized so that I could turn

around and get a good picture .      I just couldn't

do this .     This was at the time when I was looking

 ~F-tDEN+IAL

--- PAGE 132 ---
124

                 a little into the tether dy,1amics , and I actually

                 kicked off from the spacecraft pretty hard .           I

                 remember Jim saying,      "Hey, you're imparting 2

                 degrees/second rotational velocity to the space­

                 craft when you depart . "      I was pushing the space­

                 craft quite vigorously .       I wanted to push off at

                 an angle of about 30 to 40 degrees to the surface

                 of the spacecraft ,    And anytime I pushed off from

                 the surface of the spacecraft , my main ve locity

                 was perpendicular to the surface .        It shot me

                 straight out perpendicular to where the tether

                 was attached .   Again , this wasn' t in the position

                 that Jim could take a picture of me, and it wasn't

                 too good a position for myself .        I usually ended

                 up facing away from the spacecraft .

      McDivitt   Let me interject something here .        In desperation

                 I took the Hasselblad camera and stuck         it over

                 out through :Ed's open hatch , and asked him if he

                 could see the camera and if he could tell me

                 which way to point it.        He couldn ' t see the

                 camera so he never really did tell me which way

                 to point it .

      White      No .   This was the time that ~rou said ,     "Hey, get

                 in front of my windo;,.· ."    It just so happened that

                  co~~FtDENTl:AL

--- PAGE 133 ---
125


           I was right up close to the spacecraft and that's

           when I came over.     Do you remember me coming

           over    and actually looking about a foot from your

           window, Jim?

McDivitt   Yes .

White      Looking right at you.

McDivitt   Yes, I think that was the time the movie camera

           wasn't going and I was fooling around with it ,

           trying to make sure that it was running .

White      Oh, that woul d have been a very interesting

           picture.

McDivitt   I'm not sure it was going, Ed ,     ~ecause, as you

           know, we had so much trouble making the left

           hand one run .    We had that t rouble throughout

           the remainder of the flight.      You pushed a
           switch over and it seemed to run so:netimes, but

           sometimes it wouldn't.     I kept worrying about

           whether or not it was running so, I would grab

           a hold of it to see if I could feel it clicking

           over.    I switched the ON-OFF switch on a couple

           of times to make sure I could tell the change in
           the feel of it.     I'm afraid this time is one of

           the times that I didn't have the camera going,

           because I was trying to make sure that it was

           !eeNFl0ENTIAb--

--- PAGE 134 ---
126               c»Ot\JFID l:t'4TIAL
                 going .     I ' m not positive .   I hope I got :,he

                 picture but I ' m not sure about it.

      White      That was the time that I came right in , and I

                 couldn ' t have been more than a foo t from your

                 window , looking in .       I could actual ly see you

                 sitting there .

      McDivitt   That 's pr;.,bab ly :,..-hen you put a mark on my window .

      White      I think the way I did that--I could actually see

                 you in there and I pushed away with :ny hands a

                 litt le bit .       I think this was t he time t hat eHher

                 my arm or my shoulder contacted the upper part of

                 your window and you called me a "dirty d

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